HomeBrew2
Banned
I agree that he prob has 220 to the barn. And, probably 2 hots and a neutral, with one hot and neutral feeding the 40 amp/110v breaker, and the other hot just terminated.
Want to add 230V outlets to my barn
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Osconda
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If you can't determine the wire size by anything written on the insulation, I suggest you turn off the breaker to the barn that is in your home's main panel. Now that power is off at the barn, (don't forget a flashlight) you can disconnect one of the conductors from the barn's power panel. Typically, these are a little longer than necessary. Pick the longest one and after disconnecting it (might need an allen wrench) cut off a short piece to take to the electrical store. Be sure you leave enough wire to reconnect to the panel. With this in hand you ought to be able to find out what gauge wire you have.
With a long run from the main panel like you have the voltage drop over this distance probably needs to be considered.
At this point you've given us all about everything we need, except for the wire size. Insulation is important to, since it is also rated for the current carrying capacity of the wire. See if you can read this somewhere.
With a long run from the main panel like you have the voltage drop over this distance probably needs to be considered.
At this point you've given us all about everything we need, except for the wire size. Insulation is important to, since it is also rated for the current carrying capacity of the wire. See if you can read this somewhere.
rambler
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( @Rambler:
If I have two 50A double pole breakers tied in parallel, that makes 100A. (Only if there were in series would I have a limit of 50 A). Therefore, I at least have 100A service for my main panel. Any draw over that and my main will trip. If the same is being used for the barn out of the main panel, I could in theory use the full 100 A in my barn. This would create a condition where my well pump, furnace or other household things would cause the main to trip.
In actuality, I should probably limit my use to the barn to something like 60 A. There is very little chance of needing more and that would ensure that the necessary household items wouldn't blow the main.
However, and this is the main point, this is all reliant on the fact that the wiring in the conduit is able to carry 60 A.
@Everyone:
Thanks so much for the help so far. I promise that I won't do anything stupid! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Edit: Also, I should mention that the distance from the house to the barn is around 250 ft. )</font>
Ok. I missed the part where you have a 100 amp main disconnect. Current code, as of August, requires a main breaker, not disconnect, to start with, so I was taking the 50 amp breaker as your first disconnect. I might be using the wrong terms here, but I was looking at it differently, your way makes sense now.
Then you likely can pull 60-80 amps at the barn. I have a 200 amp service now, with 100 amps in the house, & 8 buildings each with a 60 amp (possible - most are still with the 20 amp box) serice. I have 3 wire runs going to the various buildings, 2 braches are over 300 feet, the branch tot he house is 75 feet. Takes some _serious_ size wire for long runs. I'm thinking your current wire will be limiting for the distance you have....... Most of my wire is not measured in 'gauge' any more, bigger than that......
So, we need to figure out those wires. Only limiting factor.
As others suggest, with safety in mind, open up the barn box, and see what you can see for the wires. They better be huge, you should be able to make out some writing on the lengths in behind the screw-in cover. Also, is it copper or aluminumn, makes a big difference.
If this is an older shed, it could be rewired, as my buildings are now. I have 220v, 60 amp service wires into each building. However, a couple of old 120v, 20 amp fuse boxes are still being used. Until I make more $$$$ and can do fruther upgrades. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A pic or a description of what the box is located in your shed will help to figure out what you have there, if you will be needing a whole new box, or upgrade the breakers, or....
--->Paul
If I have two 50A double pole breakers tied in parallel, that makes 100A. (Only if there were in series would I have a limit of 50 A). Therefore, I at least have 100A service for my main panel. Any draw over that and my main will trip. If the same is being used for the barn out of the main panel, I could in theory use the full 100 A in my barn. This would create a condition where my well pump, furnace or other household things would cause the main to trip.
In actuality, I should probably limit my use to the barn to something like 60 A. There is very little chance of needing more and that would ensure that the necessary household items wouldn't blow the main.
However, and this is the main point, this is all reliant on the fact that the wiring in the conduit is able to carry 60 A.
@Everyone:
Thanks so much for the help so far. I promise that I won't do anything stupid! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Edit: Also, I should mention that the distance from the house to the barn is around 250 ft. )</font>
Ok. I missed the part where you have a 100 amp main disconnect. Current code, as of August, requires a main breaker, not disconnect, to start with, so I was taking the 50 amp breaker as your first disconnect. I might be using the wrong terms here, but I was looking at it differently, your way makes sense now.
Then you likely can pull 60-80 amps at the barn. I have a 200 amp service now, with 100 amps in the house, & 8 buildings each with a 60 amp (possible - most are still with the 20 amp box) serice. I have 3 wire runs going to the various buildings, 2 braches are over 300 feet, the branch tot he house is 75 feet. Takes some _serious_ size wire for long runs. I'm thinking your current wire will be limiting for the distance you have....... Most of my wire is not measured in 'gauge' any more, bigger than that......
So, we need to figure out those wires. Only limiting factor.
As others suggest, with safety in mind, open up the barn box, and see what you can see for the wires. They better be huge, you should be able to make out some writing on the lengths in behind the screw-in cover. Also, is it copper or aluminumn, makes a big difference.
If this is an older shed, it could be rewired, as my buildings are now. I have 220v, 60 amp service wires into each building. However, a couple of old 120v, 20 amp fuse boxes are still being used. Until I make more $$$$ and can do fruther upgrades. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A pic or a description of what the box is located in your shed will help to figure out what you have there, if you will be needing a whole new box, or upgrade the breakers, or....
--->Paul
Okay. Here we go with pictures.
This picture shows the fuse box in the main house. The area surrounded in blue is what is labeled main. These are two breakers, each labeled at 50 A and tied together with a plastic bar.
Again, I thought that this would give me 100A service to the house. (2 X 50 A in parallel). The sticker on the inside of the door to the box says 100 A service. This sticker was put in place by the Electric Company.
This picture shows the fuse box in the main house. The area surrounded in blue is what is labeled main. These are two breakers, each labeled at 50 A and tied together with a plastic bar.
Again, I thought that this would give me 100A service to the house. (2 X 50 A in parallel). The sticker on the inside of the door to the box says 100 A service. This sticker was put in place by the Electric Company.
Attachments
Here are the wires leaving the house. I was able to read the fine print on the wires and they said "Alcore THHN 6 AWG". Looking this up online makes me think it can carry around 60A.
I wonder if this means that the two breakers to the barn are carrying 220 V 50 A as that would make more sense... Anyone?
I wonder if this means that the two breakers to the barn are carrying 220 V 50 A as that would make more sense... Anyone?
Attachments
Final picture showing the breaker box in the barn.
Some clarification here. I was incorrect earlier with my description. The blank spot on the right of the panel held a 40A breaker which wasn't hooked into anything. I removed it so the rails could be seen behind it. (Don't worry all, the breakers in the house were off for good measure!)
There is in fact no main out here in the barn. Just a few 20A and under breakers for lights and outlets. I think there are maybe two outlets or lights per breaker. Very few here in the barn.
The barn is about 150 ft from the house (my original guess of 250 ft was WAY off).
I also have a voltmeter if that would be of any help figuring this out. I'm just not used to working with AC or this much current so I'm not in a hurry to just start messing around.
Thanks so much for all the help so far!
Mark
Some clarification here. I was incorrect earlier with my description. The blank spot on the right of the panel held a 40A breaker which wasn't hooked into anything. I removed it so the rails could be seen behind it. (Don't worry all, the breakers in the house were off for good measure!)
There is in fact no main out here in the barn. Just a few 20A and under breakers for lights and outlets. I think there are maybe two outlets or lights per breaker. Very few here in the barn.
The barn is about 150 ft from the house (my original guess of 250 ft was WAY off).
I also have a voltmeter if that would be of any help figuring this out. I'm just not used to working with AC or this much current so I'm not in a hurry to just start messing around.
Thanks so much for all the help so far!
Mark
Attachments
JustGary
Silver Member
Gee, I had a post parked near here earlier...
The photos indicate that you do indeed have a 220 service in your barn. You can probably get away with replacing that unused 40A breaker with a 50A. I would probably save the time and money and run the welder on the 40A breaker that you have.
Just understand that you're at the limit of your service when you fire up the welder and lay into something thick with all it's got. Also, you're bringing the rest of the house to about 50A at the same time, so try to not use the oven, stove, air conditioner, etc. at the same time as the heavy welding.
It won't cost very much to have a licensed electrician come out and verify our free advice, so please don't rush off and do what any of us say we would do if it were our barn. Get yourself comfortable with whatever you do, since you have to live with it.
Good luck, enjoy the welder, and post photos of your creations!
- Just Gary
The photos indicate that you do indeed have a 220 service in your barn. You can probably get away with replacing that unused 40A breaker with a 50A. I would probably save the time and money and run the welder on the 40A breaker that you have.
Just understand that you're at the limit of your service when you fire up the welder and lay into something thick with all it's got. Also, you're bringing the rest of the house to about 50A at the same time, so try to not use the oven, stove, air conditioner, etc. at the same time as the heavy welding.
It won't cost very much to have a licensed electrician come out and verify our free advice, so please don't rush off and do what any of us say we would do if it were our barn. Get yourself comfortable with whatever you do, since you have to live with it.
Good luck, enjoy the welder, and post photos of your creations!
- Just Gary
