Want to get into haying - need some advice.

   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #41  
My uncle feeds round bales to his horses. However, all of my horse customers only want small squares. I think the biggest thing is who has the equipment to handle the bales and the setup to feed and store them.
 
   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #42  
You have to worry about mold when feeding round bales to horses. If the round bales have been stored inside and not rained on they should be safe to feed. If they have been outside long enough for mold to grow I'd be hesitant to feed the hay to horses. Cows don't seem to care. You can set out the oldest, moldiest hay you have to fill a ditch in the summer and the cows will leave lush green grass to eat the hay.
 
   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #43  
There are a lot of misconceptions about horses and hay. For one thing, hay don't produce weight, grain does. People who have horses want square bales simply because that's what they were told to use, they saw fed on television or read in a book or by a "friend", I've heard from many folks that rounds are no good for horses. That's false, completely false. If a horse is stalled, squares work, but I have a question for you and all the other horse people here and that is in a natural environment is a horse stalled? Of course not. Horses are herd animals and they prefer to be outside so long as they have a sheltered area to get out of the weather. Horses don't like hail or rain driven wind. Other than that, nothing affects them. It's actually better to let a horse run. Horses develop bad habits like cribbing because they are bored and they don't like being contained in a stall. Horses on free range develop a better immune system, suffer fewer health problems and are much happier. My wife has a 32 year old old style Morgan who has never seen a stall until this winter and he just a spry as a yearling most of the time.

People build elaborate hoarse quarters, indoor riding areans and so on. For what? So the horses can, in boredom, chew it apart. Morton builds some fancy barns and stalls and a good horse can and will masticate it away in short order. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Our horses aren't treated like a "Herd". On the contrary. Our Percherons are very expensive, pure bred horses. One of our mares is a Salerno Degas granddaughter and she is one of 2 left in the world. We do stall the Percherons but only during foaling and only so that the vet and my wife and I can make sure the foal is okay, delivery went as planned, the placenta is expelled and so on. As soon as the foal has it's "sea legs" and is reasonably secure and is nursing, we turn the mare and foal out, only bringing them in at night and for the proper veterinary procedures. That nightly confinement is eliminated as soon as possible, that is, as soon as the mare/foal combination is accepted into the group and the mare has set her territory.

We have 13 stalls available at all times but we seldom use any stalls.

Back to rounds. Horse people for the most part don't have the equipment to feed rounds anyway and that's good for me and good for any hay grower, however, 99% of the horse people I deal with haven't the faintest idea what the difference is between good hay and poor hay. We perform either Near Infrared or Wet Chemistry on our hay segregating fields and cuts and can provide scientific analysis on all our forage if need be but that 99% wouldn't have any idea what they are looking at anyway. The prime reason we do chemistry is because we were selling rounds for dry cows and certain minerals in those rounds have to be below a pre-described level.

Our horses, because they free range, are very affectionate toward humans. We have never tried in any way to control or confine them and because of that, you can go in the pasture, any one of the pastures and they will come right up. You don't need a treat, they just like to be, should I say, groomed. Percherons weight in the excess of 2000 pounds each so you have to be very careful about where they place their feet. Their hooves on your feet, without steel toes can result in a trip to the emergency room and a cast. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I find that peoples misconceptions about horses are to my advantage in so much as forage sales. I chuckle about them though.
 
   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #44  
I'm with you 5030 on it being to your financial gain about the horse folks wanting sqaures! Even with all the labor involved here I can make 3 times as much on sqaures as rolls. For my horses (Tennessee Walking Horses) they get the rolls.
 
   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #45  
5030 sounds like a real hoot.Just seems to go against the grain to see a nice tb or warmblood getting all potbellied on hay.Seems I never stop learning things.
 
   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #46  
That's referred to as a "hay belly". It does happen, especially with stalled horses but not with horses that free range. Again, grain and processed high nutrition feeds are what causes fat production, not forage.

Another widespread misconception is that if you feed a horse dusty hay it causes respiratory problems. It does, and a stalled horse confined and "force" fed dusty moldy hay can and will have problems. However, horses are smarter than their owners think they are. Horses haven't lived for thousands of years eating poor feed. Given a free choice and not a forced choice, horses will pick through bad forage and eat the good forage. I feed the same round bales that the feeder steers get to the horses and in 20 years I have never had any problems.

For amusement I like to go to hay auctions and watch the "cowgirls" and "cowboys" buy squares. Again, 99% of them buy hay on color and weight of the bale. To them, a good heavy green bale is what they want and pay an exorbitant price for it. Of course that heavy green high moisture bale is a time bomb for a confined horse but they think they are getting a deal.

There is a whole industry just devoted to horse owners selling them remedies, tack, clothes and whatever to fuel their misconceptions about horses but that's another story.

If I were to go to a hay auction (and I do buy hay on occasion), I always go with my Dlemhorst Digital Moisture meter and probes and I know the difference between good hay and poor hay. An informed buyer is a smart buyer but a smart buyer has to be educated and have the proper tools to make a wise purchase.

Many time I have made a liar out of a hay seller with the Delmhorst. It has a very loud threshold alarm that can be set for a predetermined maximum moisture. Just stick in the probe and when it starts screaming, everyone hears it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #47  
Interesting post.... I'd like to expand on this observation...
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( that 99% wouldn't have any idea what they are looking at anyway. )</font>

Even if one does their homework, learning about good quality hay is not easy. Sending out for test results will usually come back with scientific jargon attached. It takes real time, effort and dedication to become educated in all things horses.....

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #48  
I am in agreement with 5030 on the round bales to horses...we do it all the time, our horses don't get fat and don't suffer from it at all.

I have to watch the horses during the warm part of the year, the constant grazing on green pastures will plump them up a bit to much, at that point they get put in half of the corral and fed hay to thin them down a bit.

Dusty hay is a hazard for barn kept horses, the lack of air circulation makes for respiratory concerns, but so does just putting them in a stall all the time. Horses can get respiratory problems from dusty shavings put in for bedding as well.
 
   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #49  
Plumboy,

The picture attached shows the 2005 World Champion Barrel Horse and Rider, 2005 National NBHA Champion, 2005 IRCA Rodeo Champion, 2005 Youth Rodeo Midwest Champion, and winner of about $60,000, 22 buckles, a horse trailer, and a basement full of prizes from 2005. When not on the road this horse is turned out on pasture or roundbales in the winter. If you can see the potbelly please let me know. I also have the 2005 Little Britches World Champion and her barrel and pole horse if you'd like to see them. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BTW square bales will put a potbelly on horses too. What puts a potbelly on horses is grass hay that is cut too late. A good quality round bale that was cut and put up right will be just the same as a square bale. I also suggest you look up studies from CSU, Colorado State University. When left to their own devices out on pasture with free choice to hay or grass horses do not overeat. They self-regulate themselves. The study showed that horses in stalls consumed more hay than horses who were in a pasture with free choice to hay.
 

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   / Want to get into haying - need some advice. #50  
Seems to me that most(not all) hay for round bales are cut late around here for cattle out of convenience.It just doesnt start out horse quality anyways.Horses,maybe stalled more so,have a delicate digestive system tuned to a schedule and domestication also, and turning one loose on rounds just seems to me like a good way to colic one.Wonder how the digestive tract of a tb compares to a mustang?I used to be into horses when I was young,going to jumping camps and enjoyed them,but got out in my teens so I make statements on what I've been around and taught and read you guys as I do any useful info on the web.So lets try not to get too snotty.
 

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