Want to get into haying - need some advice.

cowboydoc · Feb 13, 2006

I think the snotty was started with this:

 5030 sounds like a real hoot.Just seems to go against the grain to see a nice tb or warmblood getting all potbellied on hay. 

If you didn't notice the wink I was trying to be funny with what I said. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I wasn't trying to be snotty. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Sorry you took it that way. Just wanted to show you that world champions do just as good or better than horses on squares.

Horses,maybe stalled more so,have a delicate digestive system tuned to a schedule and domestication also, and turning one loose on rounds just seems to me like a good way to colic one. 

This couldn't be further from the truth. A good way to colic a horse is to put them in a stall and feed them twice a day and confine them. The best thing you can do for a horse's digestive tract is to put them on pasture and secondly on free choice hay. It's our "domestication" of horses that has led to colic. Outside on pasture and allowed to free range horses will rarely colic. It is rich feed, too much carbs, sugars, and poor quality hay either in squares or rounds, etc. is what leads to colic. Stress from strange horses, altered feed schedules, boredom, etc. all lead to colic.

Wonder how the digestive tract of a tb compares to a mustang? 

They are exactly the same.

It's not good for cattle to have poor hay either. They won't gain good, won't get good calving weights, and can abort from being fed poor quality hay. Good hay is good hay and poor hay is poor hay.

plumboy · Feb 14, 2006

On all these forum boards I allways taken the wink as smug.I dont know why maybe its just an abused gremlin in fueds.Looks like I have a lot to learn about all things equine.The horse farms here would not be the best place to start.It will take a while to get the land I just bought up to spec anyways if I go that route.Seems like the 'western' way is better for the horse than the 'english' way-stall fed,worked daily, and turned loose on mowed pastures.

Hey,I dont think using the word 'hoot' was out of line,it was in reference of him chuckling. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif .... oops,sorry --> /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cowboydoc · Feb 14, 2006

There's nothing at all wrong with feeding a horse in a stall, working them, and turning them out on mowed pastures. Having a horse on pasutre great for them. What's bad is keeping a horse in a stall 23/7 and working them maybe an hour/day and feeding twice/day confined in a stall. Certainly putting a horse on pasture is the best thing for them but it's not that much different than turning them loose with a round bale.

plumboy · Feb 14, 2006

23/7.If a horse is racing or at an event, maybe training they would spend more time in sthe stall.Horses can be bedded/fed in the stall but would spend most of the day outside when not training I would think.Thats like keeping a bird in a birdcage.The summer pastures are seemed to be mowed for aesthetics as well to keep the horses grazing close to where it would be in the winter.I understand the roundbale compared to summer pasture thing.But roundbale (to me) is mouthfull after mouthful standing there in one spot,maybe it doesnt have the energy to founder but couldnt it lead to impaction/colic.I would think they are supplemented with more hay throughout the winter day but 1500lb in one spot is where I'm having the prob.Espeacially in winter when they are fooled with less.

cowboydoc · Feb 14, 2006

But roundbale (to me) is mouthfull after mouthful standing there in one spot,maybe it doesnt have the energy to founder but couldnt it lead to impaction/colic.I would think they are supplemented with more hay throughout the winter day but 1500lb in one spot is where I'm having the prob.Espeacially in winter when they are fooled with less. 

Please read the above post plumboy. Horses DO NOT sit there and eat mouthful after mouthful. They eat a little and go on. Horses are not as stupid as we give them credit for. They go out and play, run around, etc. and come back eat a little more and go on. They aren't like us smart humans that sit in front of the tv for 8 hours/day eating chips, candy, and other junkfood non-stop. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Most of the time when we come up to the pastures the horses are not even eating on the roundbales. It's not like they stand there in one place and just eat all day. If it is a problem, usually with an older horse that can't get around as good, put the roundbale at the far end of the pasture from the water and turnout shelter. It is really a non-issue. They don't get fat and they don't get pot bellies for the most part. I'm not saying you won't have a fat horse here and there but for the most part they don't overeat, they don't get fat, and the chance for impaction and colic is reduced over 300% by keeping horses on a grass/hay mix constantly over feeding them twice/day. That's a fact. A horse's digestive system was meant to eat constantly. It is when they don't eat constantly and the gorge themselves, by eating grain and high protein hay, in a little amount of time that they have their greatest risk of colic. AS simply as I can say it STALL LIFE IS the biggest risk of colic, period.

And no offense to you or snotty but VERY few horses are kept outside when not training. Most horses in training are kept in a stall 23/7. Just go visit any racetrack in the country. Go visit any big reining, cutting, jumping, dressage, etc. training barn in the country. Those horses are NOT out on pasture. They are in a 10x10 or 12x12 stall 90% of their life.

And another one just for the record. You DO NOT want a horse grazing close to the ground. The ideal height to graze on is around 6". Grazing close to the ground leads to sand colic and it's very hard on your pasture.

Egon · Feb 14, 2006

I'm not really sure but would think the large round bales should be of better average quality as compared to the small square ones. It's a matter of logistics, size and knowledge of haymaker and getting stuff under cover. Not saying small square bales cannot be a quality product.

From away back in the past I've heard horses can founder on too much fresh alphalfa or getting too much grain. Never on too much hay.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

riptides · Feb 14, 2006

( From away back in the past I've heard horses can founder on too much fresh alphalfa or getting too much grain. Never on too much hay.)

Like anything else, moderation, and controlled introduction to new foods. Big pastures with rotation helps too.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cowboydoc · Feb 14, 2006

From away back in the past I've heard horses can founder on too much fresh alphalfa or getting too much grain. Never on too much hay.


You are exactly right Egon and it's still true today. They also founder rather easily on spring grasses if they haven't been out on pasture for the winter. Alfalfa that hasn't gone through the curing stage can be deadly on horses or cattle.

plumboy · Feb 14, 2006

( What puts a potbelly on horses is grass hay that is cut too late. )

This has been a great crash course,but one more question doc. Alfalfa and timothy lose power when cut to late.All the energy goes to the flower/seeds(right?).What is it that makes grass hay give the potbelly when cut late?The stems and seeds?

cowboydoc · Feb 14, 2006

There is an enzyme that is released in grass after it goes through the heading out stage. It's not the stem or the seeds. I am at a loss right now to think of what that enzyme is but I will track it down and let you know. You are right that they both lose their nutritional value. Grass loses it faster than alfalfa. Basically by the time it's done headed out it's not alot better than feeding straw. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif