Warranty issue dispute with Kubota - Advice anyone

[Diggin It]

I appreciate all the input. I am still a bit hopeful that they will cover it. Told me they are working on it. The dealer service guys agree with me. They are trying to get Kubota to cover it.

Some of us have been wondering about your first thread in December where you mentioned bogging down and stalling once it warmed up. To us, that seemed to be a significant indication of overheating.

 

[oosik]

The "Taco Wagon". Different subject - different thread. You can google it.

 

[AtlantaViking]

I want to thank everyone for putting in their two cents worth. I have my final answer from Kubota and they tell me they will do nothing. I am sure that I could have done something that would have luckily stoped my problem from happening, but Kubota should change their design so this does not happen. $25,000 tractors should be designed so they don't allow this to happen. Tractors are utilized in rough conditions and it should be capable of doing so without locking up and engine for such a simple problem. I am going to trade this in for a different manufacturer's machine. Will never do business with Kubota again.

 

[Peter 315]

Any tractor brand that runs empty of water will do the same thing sorry for your loss. Its not only kubota's fault

 

[Tx Jim]

AtlantaViking
I'm sorry for your loss but I agree with Peter 315 that other tractor manufacturers will probably give a very similar answer of not covered by warranty. I'll bet an automobile manufacturer would give similar answer to similar engine coolant loss problem. I have many yrs experience dealing with warranty problems while I served as a dealer service manager several yrs ago.

I had a personal experience of new tractor that hyd pto clutch snap ring broke ruining trans case. New trans case had to come from factory in country other than USA which was going to take several weeks. Tractor owner didn't want to wait so he traded in the broken tractor for a new different model. Tractor manufacturer denied the warranty claim on the nearly NEW tractor due to the fact that it no longer belonged to customer but it belonged to dealer.

 

[AtlantaViking]

The sensor is on the engine but on the water flow not the oil. Apparently no engine, car or tractor has it on the oil system. Problem is that when there is NO WATER in the system, the sensor does not pick up the heat as efficiently, thereby allowing it to overheat substantially before any signs are shown. Perfect storm situation - Water leaks out while engine is not running, no sign of it unless you are lucky enough to have it parked where it can be seen, but not on dirt or rocks. Then you check the coolant reservoir, it is fine beach the siphon does not work when below the pick up point. Then the heat indicator does not go up because it has no water flowing past sensor. Then you are running along all fine and KABOOOOM, engine locks up. From the User Manual "BChecking Coolant Level

To avoid personal injury:

A Do not remove radiator cap while coolant is hot. When cool, slowly rotate cap to the first stop and allow sufficient time for excess pressure to escape before removing the cap completely.

1. Check to see that the coolant level is between the "FULL" and "LOW" marks of recovery tank.

2. When the coolant level drops due to evaporation, add soft water only up to the full level. In case of leakage, add anti-freeze and soft water in the specified mixing ratio up to the full level. (See "Flushing Cooling System and Changing Coolant" in "EVERY 2 YEARS" in "PERIODIC SERVICE" section.)

3. When the coolant level is lower than "LOW" mark of recovery tank, remove the radiator cap and check to see that the coolant level is just below the port. If level is low, add coolant."

 

[Peter 315]

You get a gallon of 50/50 premix and add it . If your adding it all the time you have a problem .If you CHOOSE not to check the oil, water , etc its your fault. I have driven tractor trailer all my life That's the first thing you do BEFORE even getting in the truck is CHECK the oil, water , fuel and anything else that might be fallen off....

 

[rScotty]

The sensor is on the engine but on the water flow not the oil. Apparently no engine, car or tractor has it on the oil system. Problem is that when there is NO WATER in the system, the sensor does not pick up the heat as efficiently, thereby allowing it to overheat substantially before any signs are shown. Perfect storm situation - Water leaks out while engine is not running, no sign of it unless you are lucky enough to have it parked where it can be seen, but not on dirt or rocks. Then you check the coolant reservoir, it is fine beach the siphon does not work when below the pick up point. Then the heat indicator does not go up because it has no water flowing past sensor. Then you are running along all fine and KABOOOOM, engine locks up.

I see the problem, and I think you have a valid complaint.....but unfortunately it's industry wide. The problem that got you, is the same potential problem on every fluid cooling system on every engine I can think of.....at least all the ones I've seen in some 60 years of mechanical work. Basically it sounds like you have put your finger on a major oversight in the engine cooling industry. Someone originally got their physics wrong, and then everyone copied each other.

As a result, if there is a leak anywhere low on the radiator or lower hoses the temperature sensor is going to be looking at air temperature rather than engine temperature. There is not way the existing temperature sensor/gauge can warn the operator, and a seized engine is the probable result. All it takes is one pinhole leak.

It sure looks like the whole auto, car, truck, tractor, and industial engine industry has copied that same design mistake that got you, but I'm afraid that their defense is going to be that the design is accepted as "common practice" - even though we now know that the design is wrong.
I wonder why it took so long for such an obvious design mistake to surface? I've not even heard it discussed in mechanical bull-sessions .... even though every mechanic has probably experience a similar problem where a temp sensor sits in a trapped air bubble which makes it send the wrong temp.

I hear some posters with arguments that one should check the radiator fluid each day before starting up, but how realistic is that? My wife probably isn't going to open the hood and take the radiator cap off to check the fluid level each time she starts the car, is yours? How about each time you start the car when doing errands in town? And you would have to do it that often to be sure of spotting the problem.
Or what about when driving down the highway? How often should we pull over to be sure that the radiator is still full of water?

Bottom line is that the way the coolant temperature sensor works needs to be changed throughout the industry. Oil temperature doesn't help as much. Has anyone got any good ideas? How about a simple fluid level gauge?

Now that you have made us aware of the problem, there is probably a fortune waiting for someone who comes up with a simple fix.
rScotty

 

[LouNY]

There is a simple fix which is in use in many applications.
It is a radiator level sensor, if you goggle such you will see that it is common.
The older CIH Magnums have it, it is a red light on the dash panel.

 

[rScotty]

There is a simple fix which is in use in many applications.
It is a radiator level sensor, if you goggle such you will see that it is common.
The older CIH Magnums have it, it is a red light on the dash panel.

I didn't know that any manufacturer had a radiator fluid level gauge standard on their machines, and I've been around. So I wouldn't exactly call it common. In fact, other than commercial engines, don't think I've ever seen it on machines that I'm familiar with. It's impressive that Case tractors have that feature. Everyone should.
When I was looking seriously at buying a Case TLB a couple of years ago the salesman didn't mention it and probably should have.

I'll sure be looking for a fluid level gauge on any future purchase.
Now I'm wondering if anyone is thinking to retrofit their cars, trucks, & tractors that don't have that feature?
rScotty