Water Line problems. Ideas?

[rutwad]

My friend has approx 1/2 mile of water line from the main to his house. 2" Sch 40 pipe was used. The soil here is absolutely terrible! Prairie mud/gumbo. Yet when it's dry, it draws up leaving cracks everywhere. He has had multiple leaks with his water line and I am not sure if it has to do primarily with the soil it is in. Surely there is a good way to lay water lines even in this nasty stuff.

What about 2" slip-joint PVC?

What about 500' rolls of poly%^#$%^ tubing?

Anybody ever had to deal with this? Looking for ideas.

 

[Craig Clayton]

At our plant we had installed by a contractor the longest underwater pipe at 1.5 miles within our 11 foot intake pipe. We have bundles of 3" and 4" pipes. Schedule 120 poly welded. There has been breaks.
In your case I would install it in a 4" big O drain pipe to allow for the seasonal wet dry cycles that could be pulling the pipes apart. Also if you trench it in at 3' maybe the soil will be a bit more stable.
Craig Clayton

 

[DanD78]

You don't say if the sch 40 is plastic or stee or where or how it is failing. I installed a little over a 1 1/2 miles of 4" bell and socket plastic water line a few years back. I am sure it was heavier than sch 40. I rented a Ditch Witch R100 trencher and buried it 4' deep. Nothing like sticking a semi load of pipe in the ground where it will never be seen again. Very simple to install. You lubricate the bell end with the special lube and a tolit mop brush, slip the ends together then lower it in to the trench. If you must make a 90 degree turn you have to block the ends so it won't blow apart and block the very end so it won't blow apart.

You need to keep the trench bottom as flat as you can to avoid dips where the pipe gets pushed down and strains the rest of the run. Our soil has no rocks so I didn't have to deal with that and my area is flat as a table top so did not have to cross any ditches or creeks.

Dan

 

[rutwad]

Is's Sch 40 PVC glue joint pipe. The terrain is undulating with probably a 75' max difference total.

Burying at 4' scares me b/c you may have a leak for a very long time b4 you know it, then there comes the problem of locating and fixing it.

I guess the bell and socket is the same as the slip-joint I was referring to. Gasket in the bell gets a little grease, then push/bump the other end in. And yes it too will blow out of the ground if not covered! Do you think the joints may slip enough to compensate for any movement from the soil?

I think a pressure regulator may help too. After 1/2 mile of pipe, he has 100 psi including leaks!!!

 

[EddieWalker]

Soil movement is the cause of most pipe failure, and it's inablity to move with soil. Drying and cracking is one movement, but getting wet and freezing is when most of your damage will happen. That's a very quick movement in the soil, and also, a very powerful movement.

Most water utilities use gasketed water pipe. You just grease the ends and push them together. This allows the pipe to move in small amounts with the soil around it.

Poly pipe is famous for failing. It was an idea that was tried and failed. Lots of guys use it for their well systems, and home use, but it's one of those things that you just never know when it's going to go bad on you. From what I understand, the Water Utilities have quite usining it a decade ago, and are now running crews full time to deal with the never ending repairs on what they did use.

In CA, where I'm from, we had to surround the water lines with sand. The pipe had to lay on a bed of sand, and then sand was put in over top of it. The pipe had to have sand all the way around it for so many inches. I forget the number, and it varied with location, size of the pipe and if it was a puplic water line or private.

When the earth moves, the sand allows the pipe to remain in place. It also protects it from rocks that might be in the ground, that may wear on the pipe over time. I've never seen rock damage, or met anybody in person who has, but it's a concern that you might have.

As for the advice to enclose it in another larger pipe. I would not do that. Water preasure changes all the time. There are surges that will flex a pipe that will allow it to move if it's not solid in the ground. If the pipe can move around inside another pipe, it will never stop moving. Even worse, when it does break, how will you know where to look for the break?

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[rutwad]

The owner seems to think that 1" black roll pipe is the answer. So would it be possible to dig up the 2" PVC water line approx every 450' and not even worry if it rips out a joint or two of pipe. Then with mouse, string, rope, followed by sock (think Chinese finger cuffs), feed the 500' through the 2" pipe. Then use the excavated areas for coupling the 500' rolls together and coving back with dirt. This would also allow a leak to present itself since the coupling area would not be sleeved in the 2" PVC.

CRAZY IDEA, BUT WHO KNOWS..........

 

[rutwad]

Eddie, I missed your reply while I was typing my last one. But based on several peoples advice, it sounds like the slip-joint pipe is the way to go.

 

[Car Doc]

I would use poly and if he could size it right he may be able to just shove it thru the old pipe and have very little digging but that's just a guess I try to figure out easy ways to do things.

edit;Oh I just found your post where he had already thought of that well there are 2 votes!

 

[Sumpter]

If you have poor soil conditions which move a lot you need to replace that soil with sand which was suggested in a earlier post. Some place even require some gravel to allow water to drain from around the pipes. You local building departement should be able to tell you what works, but that may bring other questions from them that you do not want. Permitting, inspections, etc.

 

[Kays Supply]

There are several kinds of " poly " some is junk others are very good. I have repaired the bad and installed the good. I have poly pipe that has been in the ground for 25 years and never a problem. The pressure you describe is an issue. The pipe, no matter what you use, must be rated for that kind of pressure. PEX is one of the better poly. The cities in my area have used and still use, a blue poly for water services. They love it.