Water well prob, need ideas....

[tommu56]

MotorSeven
One of the local fire company's had the same wash away problem with their dry hydrant they put a precast man hole about 10 ft away from the creek and ran 24" precast concrete pipes out to the water and draft out of the manhole.
(it helps that they have a member that is an excavating contractor)

I do feel your pain I had a well drilled at my cabin and only get about 20 gallons per day not an hour or minuet but a day.
I use to cart water for like 20 years in an IBC tank on a trailer to a spring 6 miles away.
Between the well, pump. pipe,wire, and cistern my wallet is a lot thinner.
In hind site I could have bought lots of fuel to fetch the water with for what I have sunk in the ground (pun intended).


PILOON
It sounds like you are using polyethylene pipe not polyvinylchloride +PVC
tom

 

[atgreene]

From what you describe I have to believe that if you have sand in the pump (or did I mis-understand) There should be no sand in the pump or in the filters. Sounds to me like your pump may be cavitating (starving for water). Have you thought of putting a couple pick-up tubes in so that the foot valves/well point isn't pulling so hard through the screen. I've seen this done a couple times.

Here's what I have used on a few jobs. They last a few years and seem to do well filtering out sand/silt.

well point from Northern Tool + Equipment

You will loose some air through a check valve especially if you have had sand come through it. It's hard to get them to seal tight after sand and time have had their way with them.

It's hard to beat a couple concrete risers to allow you to have a clean well to draw from.

Good luck.

 

[charlz]

What is the GPM of the pump? I'm still thinking insufficient water supply. The sand etc has settled and water can't transfer through it fast enough to keep up with the pump.

 

[dex3361]

1) I would put a vacuum/pressure guage on the suction side of the pump and check the vacuum/pressure. If I am reading it right it is 10 feet in elevation from the pump to the well point. That would give a -4.3 PSI to pull it up to the inlet of the pump. When pulling from the tank you have probably 1 PSI (with 2.31' of elevation in the tank).

2) As others have stated you may have a leak in the suction side to the well or a restriction if the vacuum is greatly under the -4.3 PSI. The maximum you can pull water is about -14 PSI (in theory).

3) It is likely that you have worn the impellar clearances with all of the sand and that is why you don't pump as much from the well as from the tank. The clearances may look fine but you would actually need to measure them acurately to tell if they are worn or not.

Hope you get it lined out

 

[MotorSeven]

AT, that is the exact sand point I am using, even bought it thru NT.
Charlz, I can twist the sand point around easy with my hands, so it does not feel that it is packed around it too tight.
Tom, a concrete off creek riser type system might work, if we don't get hit with another drought this year. This little "crik" stops flowing & goes underground druing the dry times. Even then I had a few inches of water covering the sand & entire ecosystem w'fish that must have been real appreciative..........

"3) It is likely that you have worn the impellar clearances with all of the sand and that is why you don't pump as much from the well as from the tank. The clearances may look fine but you would actually need to measure them acurately to tell if they are worn or not."

Dex, this is where I think I am heading. My neighbor has an almost new pump he said I could borrow. I think I am going to sawzall some pvc here soon & swap it out & see if the cavitation goes away. If it does, I am going to get a submersible pump.

 

[PILOON]

tommu66;

I always use the blue HD line. Believe it is PolyB-great pressure rating, 1/4" wall and indistructable! Specks claim it can handle freezing as well.
Around here the city accepts it in lieu of schedule copper for connection to mains.
Being heavy wall, heat is a must for fitting barb connections.

My biggest problem has been hose clamps , while stainless the screws that tighten are not and they generaly rot away after about 6-8 yrs. I generally use 2 per barb fitting but that still is not bullet proof.
Not fun having to chainsaw a hole in the ice to retrieve a pump at -25 deg just to replace a clamp!

In theory that pump could draw 1 atmosphere or 30 ft.
In practice a bit less.
Impellers are not as tight a tolerance as you'd expect but rather move the water by blade design and RPM's.
For poor GPM situations the good ole piston pump is still the best.

Most of our lake pumps are deep well submersibles that we mount in a cradle and simply toss them into the lake.
No priming, just throw the switch and instant water. Endless supply and our lake is all spring fed so we have pure H2O!

Many installs use a heated 'tracing wire' inside the pipe that is barely buried (very rocky terrain). The tracing line is self regulating, looks kinda like 300 ohm TV lead and heats when below 35 deg in 12" increments. Runs 6 watts per ft and can actually thaw a frozen line.

Enough ramblings.

Good luck!

 

[Egon]

[QUOTEWhat is the GPM of the pump? I'm still thinking insufficient water supply. The sand etc has settled and water can't transfer through it fast enough to keep up with the pump.][/QUOTE]

Now that might be an idea with merit.

maybe dig out the sand and replace it with some coarser gravel.

 

[tommu56]

PILOON

My old cabin had the same issue the poly pipe and barb fittings.
we tried 2 hose clamps and bailing wire even 3 clamps 2 around pipe and one between clamps to pull them together.

I was at the plumbing supply house and asked what other type of fitting was available they showed me these Camble fittings Campbell Manuacturing Catalog Page F4 Hanflo Poly Pipe Compression Fittings

The only issue was it was like yours above ground covered with stones were we could and if it did freeze (we always tried let it trickle to prevent that) some times the fitting would brake.

tom

 

[studor]

JMHO --you are losing the water in the pipe from the creek to the pump -- it should have stayed at 30 psi indefinitely -- that hard stuff glued is not usually recommended for suctions because it frequently leaks at glue joints. It takes the pump a long time to clear the air out of the pipe each time (like 2 minutes per five foot of suction or thereabouts). One of your original thoughts was new pipe tossed in the creek wasn't it? Might be time to try with a piece of poly hose and a little Bulliet mixed with cold water

 

[Western]

I think I would have to address the stinger (if I understood your layout),

I would remove the sand from the pit and put in larger rock in some kind of fashion to reduce the sand load. It may only take a few microns of sand blasting in the pump "peller" race area to give you the same problems.

I vote with the poster on the reservoir idea, or some kind of "settling " tank

BUT on the flip side, if your pumping sand through, a bigger pump and you would have the best water sandblasting rig in the county! (glass half full kinda thing)

Sorry trying de caf today...