SpringHollow
Elite Member
From the manual for what it is worth:
Ken
Ken
Weird electrical puzzler - breaker pops, the PT1850 runs better until it's shut off
- Thread starter MikeOConnor
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/ Weird electrical puzzler - breaker pops, the PT1850 runs better until it's shut off
#92
OP
MikeOConnor
Silver Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2002
- Messages
- 172
- Location
- Western Wisconsin
- Tractor
- Two Power-Trac 1850s (preferred for mowing and grapple-bucket clearing type work on really steep hills). Kubota M680 for snowblowing, grading, bucket.
Sorry to be so slow replying.
The no-start problem is an old friend, I just forgot about it. There's a dead-man switch in the seat of the 1850 that fails all the time for me (I'm a lightweight guy, 140 pounds, so I may just not be heavy enough to reliably close the switch). Since it fails open, it interrupts the starter. Terry walked me through the diagnosis, which is to check the voltage at the starter-solenoid while attempting to crank the starter. In my case, the result was zero volts arriving -- which ruled out the starter and the solenoid. Next step was to jumper across the dead-man switch terminals, which bypasses the switch. That fixed it and I was off to the races.
I've had this trouble with both 1850's which is what leads me to the "not heavy enough to reliably close the switch" theory.
Yes, having the PTO turned on would also have caused the same problem as it's wired to interrupt the starter in the "on" position. I've had that happen so many times I just automatically check that first thing.
Battery was fine -- I had tested that by swapping the batteries between the two machines.
Releasing the brake is a two stage operation. I'll definitely call Terry for a refresher course if I ever have to do it for real. First, use the handle on the Brake Tender to manually pump the pressure up above 1000 PSI (after 500 PSI you need a lever to do this, Terry recommends a 2x2). Second step is to loosen the Tow Valve per Ken's post just above. But Terry got pretty specific about how many turns (not many) so I'd check with him before attempting to tow. Since I have a blade on mine right now, and since the blade won't stay up with that tow-valve open, I'd have to tow from the back. I'm glad my solution didn't require towing -- I got it in the barn about 10 minutes before a burst of freezing rain went through.
The steering-plumbing thing was really cool. If you look back through my posts you'll see this constant theme of blown hydraulic components in that huge circuit that includes the steering. I've always felt like there was something hanging up in the steering that caused the pressure not to be released properly but none of the replacements really solved it. This was fixed when I sent the original 1850 back for a 15-year, 650-hour overhaul and asked Terry to take a look at the steering as one of the punch-list items. What he discovered is that one chunk of the plumbing was missing, the piece that allowed the two sides of the steering circuit to equalize. So they reworked that part of the circuit as part of the overhaul. It's way better now. The pressure still rides pretty high in certain configurations (especially doing heavy bucket work). But the steering doesn't get super-heavy any more. It used to feel like a car that had lost the power-steering pump -- you could steer, but it was really hard work.
For years my work-around when the heavy-steering happened was to stop and cycle the Brake Tender off and then back on. That would drop the pressure and make the steering work normally again. In many cases (like mowing) that would calm the steering down for quite a long time. But doing lots of turning while carrying heavy loads in the bucket required cycling the Brake Tender after every load. That has stopped now that the circuit has been revised. If you have this problem, you should call Terry and ask for the specifics because I didn't pay close enough attention to the details of which component was missing.
Mike
The no-start problem is an old friend, I just forgot about it. There's a dead-man switch in the seat of the 1850 that fails all the time for me (I'm a lightweight guy, 140 pounds, so I may just not be heavy enough to reliably close the switch). Since it fails open, it interrupts the starter. Terry walked me through the diagnosis, which is to check the voltage at the starter-solenoid while attempting to crank the starter. In my case, the result was zero volts arriving -- which ruled out the starter and the solenoid. Next step was to jumper across the dead-man switch terminals, which bypasses the switch. That fixed it and I was off to the races.
I've had this trouble with both 1850's which is what leads me to the "not heavy enough to reliably close the switch" theory.
Yes, having the PTO turned on would also have caused the same problem as it's wired to interrupt the starter in the "on" position. I've had that happen so many times I just automatically check that first thing.
Battery was fine -- I had tested that by swapping the batteries between the two machines.
Releasing the brake is a two stage operation. I'll definitely call Terry for a refresher course if I ever have to do it for real. First, use the handle on the Brake Tender to manually pump the pressure up above 1000 PSI (after 500 PSI you need a lever to do this, Terry recommends a 2x2). Second step is to loosen the Tow Valve per Ken's post just above. But Terry got pretty specific about how many turns (not many) so I'd check with him before attempting to tow. Since I have a blade on mine right now, and since the blade won't stay up with that tow-valve open, I'd have to tow from the back. I'm glad my solution didn't require towing -- I got it in the barn about 10 minutes before a burst of freezing rain went through.
The steering-plumbing thing was really cool. If you look back through my posts you'll see this constant theme of blown hydraulic components in that huge circuit that includes the steering. I've always felt like there was something hanging up in the steering that caused the pressure not to be released properly but none of the replacements really solved it. This was fixed when I sent the original 1850 back for a 15-year, 650-hour overhaul and asked Terry to take a look at the steering as one of the punch-list items. What he discovered is that one chunk of the plumbing was missing, the piece that allowed the two sides of the steering circuit to equalize. So they reworked that part of the circuit as part of the overhaul. It's way better now. The pressure still rides pretty high in certain configurations (especially doing heavy bucket work). But the steering doesn't get super-heavy any more. It used to feel like a car that had lost the power-steering pump -- you could steer, but it was really hard work.
For years my work-around when the heavy-steering happened was to stop and cycle the Brake Tender off and then back on. That would drop the pressure and make the steering work normally again. In many cases (like mowing) that would calm the steering down for quite a long time. But doing lots of turning while carrying heavy loads in the bucket required cycling the Brake Tender after every load. That has stopped now that the circuit has been revised. If you have this problem, you should call Terry and ask for the specifics because I didn't pay close enough attention to the details of which component was missing.
Mike
ponytug
Super Member
Wow, missing hydraulic lines. That would have been way, way down my list of things to check. I'm glad to hear that you have it sorted out now.
Thanks for sharing the detailed post.
All the best,
Peter
Thanks for sharing the detailed post.
All the best,
Peter
Coyote machine
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FWIW, I didn't read it as missing hydraulic lines, instead: ..."What he discovered is that one chunk of the plumbing was missing, the piece that allowed the two sides of the steering circuit to equalize. So they reworked that part of the circuit as part of the overhaul. It's way better now."
As Mike stated- he did not recall the exact fix details, but one could ask the 'factory' for that detail....
/ Weird electrical puzzler - breaker pops, the PT1850 runs better until it's shut off
#95
OP
MikeOConnor
Silver Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2002
- Messages
- 172
- Location
- Western Wisconsin
- Tractor
- Two Power-Trac 1850s (preferred for mowing and grapple-bucket clearing type work on really steep hills). Kubota M680 for snowblowing, grading, bucket.
Weird. Ten minutes after writing that big post I went out to start the tractor and plow the road and... it didn't start. A call to Terry and I learned how to jump the starter solenoid. Which did the trick. I plowed the road with a wire in my pocket and put a new solenoid in this afternoon.
Soundguy
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- Central florida
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
Wow.. Definitely an advertisement thread on what machine NOT to buy!
Sorry the OP is having these issues.
Sorry the OP is having these issues.
woodlandfarms
Super Member
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- Jul 31, 2006
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Watcha got against the PT Soundguy? This guy owns two of them, and a Kubota, and he is always on the PT. I see you helping guys out with their purchases all the time and this seems to be the only tractor you got disparaging remarks over.
MossRoad
Super Moderator
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- Aug 31, 2001
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- 57,947
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- South Bend, Indiana (near)
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- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
Nah. He's just looking at it from the perspective of "Man, that's a lot of stuff to be wrong with a machine. Maybe I won't buy one." That's all. :laughing:
MossRoad
Super Moderator
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Nah. He's just looking at it from the perspective of "Man, that's a lot of stuff to be wrong with a machine. Maybe I won't buy one." That's all. :laughing:
Soundguy
Old Timer
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
Well, lets see how to answer this post...
1, what do I have against the PT? well.. Moss nailed it.. man those things are having problems, I don't want to own one of them.
2, this is not the only tractor I have ever disparaged! I've spoke my mind on the extremely poor and backwards thinking design of the hyds ( on some chinese tractors ) when a loader is attached. IE.. quick disconencts plumbed right at the pump, with no relief in line, thus any error in those connections and poof!.. you automatically blow a pump seal at a minimum and get hyds int he crankcase.. or you crack the pump. A loose-loose design that 5$ of parts would have fixed. I have also had some choice comments on other brands, including brainchild/brainfarts on ford equipment... and I prefer ford equipment.
3, I'll assume you didn't read this entire thread before deciding to post this, because if you would have, I was one of the people in the post helping troubleshoot the electrical problem originally.
