Welder Electric Circuit Question

[drm]

I just purchased a Lincoln Power Mig 215. Now I need to run a new circuit to the garage to power it. Distance from circuit panel (200 amp capacity) is 100 feet. I will also make up a 40' +/- extension cord so I can move the welder around a little.

Lincoln's recommendations for the circuit is for a 60 amp fuse or breaker (Super Lag) and 8 AWG for runs over 100' for 75 C Copper wire in Conduit. The Input Ampere Rating on the Nameplate is 41 amps.

Running a voltage drop calculator for: Copper wire, 240 volt, 3% voltage drop, 60 amps, 140' length indicates to use a #4 conductor (good up to 194’ feet; #6 is good for up to 122’ conductor length calculator). For 41 amps the recommendation is #6 (good up to 178’ feet; #8 is good for up to 112’).

Why the difference? It is Friday night so I can not call Lincoln and I wanted to pick up supplies in the AM to get welding. Can any electricians or others in the know explain the difference?

Thanks

 

[Lynkage]

A welder is not going to be continuous but you should always use a bigger conductor as heat plays a part in what is going through the wire. I would run a #6 min and a #8-3 sow type cord for your welder. the rest is up to you. Also use a cord cap rated for your welder.

 

[drm]

A welder is not going to be continuous but you should always use a bigger conductor as heat plays a part in what is going through the wire. I would run a #6 min and a #8-3 sow type cord for your welder. the rest is up to you. Also use a cord cap rated for your welder.

Can you tell me what a cord cap is?

 

[Lynkage]

Plug type.
I use twist lock's.

 

[MadReferee]

The standard 220v plug on welders is a NEMA 6-50P. The corresponding recepticle is a NEMA 6-50R. They are not twist lock and they are not comaptible with electric clothes dryers.

If you want the correct information you should ask your questions on one of the welding forums like the Hobart Welders. The forums are not brand specific and get questions like this all the time.

I wouldn't be asking tractor questions over there and I wouldn't be asking important welding questions here.

 

[drm]

Can you tell me what a cord cap is?

Now that I have some sleep, I am embarrassed that I asked that question. I know the receptacle type, like mad said NEMA 6-50R. I was incorrectly thinking that Lynkage was referring to a "CAP" type/rating of electrical wiring and not the Plug/Receptacle type.

Mad,

I have posted on the welding web website. Just a lot more traffic here and most likely any electrician that has run a welding circuit or that has a good bit of experience would be able to give some good guidance even if they do not weld.

 

[MadReferee]

The Hobart Welders forum is probably the most active welding forum out there. It is frequented by hobbyist and professionals alike. Wiring questions are asked and answered just about every other day. Welding Web is a relative new comer, so to speak, with no where near the traffic that Hobart has.

 

[drm]

Mad,

I posted to Hobart site and got an answer already. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Lynkage]

You can use ANY plug rated for your application. Some people use twist lok some blade type. I just standardized all of my 220v tools so that I can buy and use one type of plug. This also corresponds to my generator and RV so this way in a pinch you can use what you need when you need it!

 

[drm]

I was not able to get the electric supply this morning so I spent some time thinking about the situation. I have a sub panel for the pool in the opposite corner of the garage from where I want the welder. It is supplied with 96’ - #6 AL conductors and a 50 amp breaker at the main house circuit panel. Existing circuits in the pool sub-panel are: pool pump (20 Amp), lights (minimal), yard receptacle (20 amp), and heat pump (30 amp). It has 9 open spaces but is at already at capacity for load and wire size.

I am going to replace the 50 amp breaker in the main circuit panel with a 100 amp and use #4 copper or equivalent AL to service the panel (96’ run of cable) for the garage/pool/welder. I will use the existing #6 AL wire to service the welder (70’ run from panel). I will add 2 – 20 amp outlet circuits around the garage. I also need more lights in the garage so I will add 4 sets of 2 fluorescent 4' fixtures hung at about 10’ above the floor. I want these switched via three separate switches to control the area needing lit.

So for a little more than just adding one 50 amp outlet I will get the additional lighting and outlets. How does this sound?

 

[brande]

I just purchased a Lincoln Power Mig 215. Now I need to run a new circuit to the garage to power it. Distance from circuit panel (200 amp capacity) is 100 feet. I will also make up a 40' +/- extension cord so I can move the welder around a little.

Lincoln's recommendations for the circuit is for a 60 amp fuse or breaker (Super Lag) and 8 AWG for runs over 100' for 75 C Copper wire in Conduit. The Input Ampere Rating on the Nameplate is 41 amps.

Running a voltage drop calculator for: Copper wire, 240 volt, 3% voltage drop, 60 amps, 140' length indicates to use a #4 conductor (good up to 194’ feet; #6 is good for up to 122’ conductor length calculator). For 41 amps the recommendation is #6 (good up to 178’ feet; #8 is good for up to 112’).

Why the difference? It is Friday night so I can not call Lincoln and I wanted to pick up supplies in the AM to get welding. Can any electricians or others in the know explain the difference?

Thanks

Don't overthink this.

A couple of things enter here.

First, size your service without considering the 40 ft extension cord.(we'll get to that later).

Ampacities of SO, SJ and other heavily covered cable is less than conduit and THHN and similar wire.

Wire ampacity is based on it's ability to stay cool under load.

That said,your situation might be a application for UF (underground feeder) cable.

No conduit needed here.
UF is rated for direct burial in dirt with no conduit.

Keep in mind that the welder companies will err on the safe side (recommending a bit larger wire than what is needed) They also anticipate heavy 8 hr use.

A quick look at UF copper, in direct burial, in the NEC (National Electrical Code) lists an ampacity of 84 for #8.
UF aluminum in this instance allows 66 amps.

Either of these cables will work for your app.

Remember, too that the NEC allows a substantial derate (article 630)for many welding machines as they do not work at absolute full capacity for 8 hours (the protocol for rating most electrical services).

A 40 ft extension of # 8 or # 10 SO, SJ should take care of the rest.
An extension should consider only the distance from the breaker box to the machine. It shoud be assumed that the breaker box was installed correctly and full ampacity is available there.

# 8 or# 10 UF cable should work for you, especially if you are using smaller wire (.030).
.035 may draw a bit more, but should still be ok with the 8 or 10.

Any questions, let me know.

Good Luck

brande

NW Pennsylvania
Welding Technician-25+yr.
Factory Trained
Weld Shop Owner
Welding Consultant
AWS CWI Weld Inspector
bradweld@connecttime.net

 

[Sberry]

You can use ANY plug rated for your application.

Almost, it needs to be a grounding outlet, 3 wire range and dryers are not quite the same as a regular welding outlet.

 

[brande]

Don't overthink this.

A couple of things enter here.

First, size your service without considering the 40 ft extension cord.(we'll get to that later).

Ampacities of SO, SJ and other heavily covered cable is less than conduit and THHN and similar wire.

Wire ampacity is based on it's ability to stay cool under load.

That said,your situation might be a application for UF (underground feeder) cable.

No conduit needed here.
UF is rated for direct burial in dirt with no conduit.

Keep in mind that the welder companies will err on the safe side (recommending a bit larger wire than what is needed) They also anticipate heavy 8 hr use.

A quick look at UF copper, in direct burial, in the NEC (National Electrical Code) lists an ampacity of 84 for #8.
UF aluminum in this instance allows 66 amps.

Either of these cables will work for your app.

Remember, too that the NEC allows a substantial derate (article 630)for many welding machines as they do not work at absolute full capacity for 8 hours (the protocol for rating most electrical services).

A 40 ft extension of # 8 or # 10 SO, SJ should take care of the rest.
An extension should consider only the distance from the breaker box to the machine. It shoud be assumed that the breaker box was installed correctly and full ampacity is available there.

# 8 or# 10 UF cable should work for you, especially if you are using smaller wire (.030).
.035 may draw a bit more, but should still be ok with the 8 or 10.

Any questions, let me know.

Good Luck

brande

NW Pennsylvania