Welding 1/4" steel- Mig or stick?

[ray66v]

The wind blew and the....oh well..we all know how that story goes too!!!

Jump in your car and drive up to Cleveland and I will be happy to introduce him to you. Or just bite me.

 

[Mundy]

BTackett,

Your very welcome. Good luck!

 

[gemini5362]

Wow the only way I can see for this thread to get more wound up is to start the debate over wire nuts in this thread. Should you twist the wires together before you put on the wire nut or shoud you just let the wire nut make the connection.


AS far as welders go. Most of the guys I work with have migs. We have a pretty good paying job for our area and do not mind the extra dollars. Having tried welding with a stick and being tired of being laughed at I love my mig. I think the duty cycle arguement is winding up like comparring apples to oranges and to grapes and to plums. A lot of people are using their own experience for their comments and everyone has a different definition of things. Continuous welding. to some like ray that might be for half an hour or an hour or longer. To me a continuous weld is about 15 minutes. To some of us a 300 am mig machine ( oh lord wont you buy me a really big mig is what the average person has at home. To some of us the 89.95 110 volt mig is the average machine. Even though we are in disagreement we all might be in agreement if we used the same definitions. I personally have a miller DVI that is a dual voltage machine that has 175 amps max with 220 volts input power. If you look at the duty cycle at max amperage it is something like 40 per cent and might even be as low as 20 per cent. However when you look at the chart in the 140 to 150 amp range all of a sudden it jumps to over 90 per cent. I very very very rarely weld anything big enough to put the selector in max range. Usually I run it about 3 or 4 positions down from max so I figure I an in the 90 per cent plus range. I have never had it shut down on me. Which welder is better is so much a personal preference. I think part of the preference for the guys that have been welding for decades is that they are used to stick welders. To them striking an arc and running a bead is so second nature that they dont even think about it. To me being able to pick up the torch stick it next to the metal and pull the trigger is a lot more user friendly. stick machines are a lot cheaper and a lot easier to find used ones that is for sure. I think my DVI with all the bells and whistles was about 2000.00 but of course my wife made some salesmans day. She went in and said my husband wants a miller DVI I want to get everything he needs to go with it. I almost choked when she brought it out on christmas day. There was the DVI and the spool gun and the dual bottle cart etc etc. I am not complaining and If I ever need to weld aluminum or stainless I am ready .

The other big different I see with stick is elctode lead length. You can run 100 foot of cable out to the electode holder with a stick and no problem it is a bit of money but that is all. I could not imagine getting a 100 foot torch for a mig. Either one works fine for someone and for some lucky skillful people they both work well.

 

[john_bud]

Back on topic,

The mig may (just may) do the 1/4". Plan on multiple passes and pre-heat the area as much as you can. That will help even if it's just a propane torch.

Proud owner of a Lincoln 255 amp mig with 70% duty cycle at max output. Not quite so proud (former) owner of a 120v Harbor Freight mig. The typical 85-100 amp 120 v mig is geared to sheet metal and up to 1/8" in short bursts. Mine would still weld, but they started looking like bird dookie.

Back off topic - typical guy, that has a tractor, will have a larger set of tools than the typical suburban 1/8 acre lot dweller. Easy to get a case of undie-bunchie when you forget to define the target population. "Typical" depends on who you are talking to. Of my group, I have one of the smaller migs. And (sob) no TIG. Oh the humanity!

jb

 

[gemini5362]

Back on topic,

The mig may (just may) do the 1/4". Plan on multiple passes and pre-heat the area as much as you can. That will help even if it's just a propane torch.

Proud owner of a Lincoln 255 amp mig with 70% duty cycle at max output. Not quite so proud (former) owner of a 120v Harbor Freight mig. The typical 85-100 amp 120 v mig is geared to sheet metal and up to 1/8" in short bursts. Mine would still weld, but they started looking like bird dookie.

Back off topic - typical guy, that has a tractor, will have a larger set of tools than the typical suburban 1/8 acre lot dweller. Easy to get a case of undie-bunchie when you forget to define the target population. "Typical" depends on who you are talking to. Of my group, I have one of the smaller migs. And (sob) no TIG. Oh the humanity!

jb

I am sorry you dont have a tig some things are just to much sorrow to bear. Actually to me that is not a big loss. I have tried using a tig and did not really like it. Hopefully the easter bunny will bring you a synchrowave 400 one of these days.

 

[RobJ]

With my welder I am mindful of the duty cycle. Mine is 40% at 90amp and 20% at 135amp. That means at 90amp 4 minutes of welding and 6 minutes of machine idle.

I have 4 welders (2 homes you have to double up you know ), A 110 mig, 220 mig(both cheap gasless), Hobart stickmare (AC), and a Lincoln Stick AC. I don't pay any attention to the duty cycle. Not going to put a timer on the thing and weld for 4 minutes then sit on my hands for 6 minutes. I weld until I need to stop, move or whatever. So it may shorten the life of my Lincoln from 50 years to 40 years.

Since I don't see mig any easier than stick I usually only use the migs for lightweight 16g steel tubing. I've just about gotten to the point with the right rod, touch, etc to not burn a hole in the tubing!!(but I'm real good at filling holes ). Anything solid or thick and I grab the stick every time. IMO, better penitration. My welds aren't the prettiest...but they hold. And that's what grinders are for!!

Rob

 

[Sully2]

AS far as welders go. Most of the guys I work with have migs. We have a pretty good paying job for our area and do not mind the extra dollars. Having tried welding with a stick and being tired of being laughed at I love my mig. I think the duty cycle arguement is winding up like comparring apples to oranges and to grapes and to plums. A lot of people are using their own experience for their comments and everyone has a different definition of things. Continuous welding. to some like ray that might be for half an hour or an hour or longer. To me a continuous weld is about 15 minutes. To some of us a 300 am mig machine ( oh lord wont you buy me a really big mig is what the average person has at home. To some of us the 89.95 110 volt mig is the average machine. Even though we are in disagreement we all might be in agreement if we used the same definitions. I personally have a miller DVI that is a dual voltage machine that has 175 amps max with 220 volts input power. If you look at the duty cycle at max amperage it is something like 40 per cent and might even be as low as 20 per cent. However when you look at the chart in the 140 to 150 amp range all of a sudden it jumps to over 90 per cent. I very very very rarely weld anything big enough to put the selector in max range. Usually I run it about 3 or 4 positions down from max so I figure I an in the 90 per cent plus range. I have never had it shut down on me. Which welder is better is so much a personal preference. I think part of the preference for the guys that have been welding for decades is that they are used to stick welders. To them striking an arc and running a bead is so second nature that they dont even think about it. To me being able to pick up the torch stick it next to the metal and pull the trigger is a lot more user friendly. stick machines are a lot cheaper and a lot easier to find used ones that is for sure. I think my DVI with all the bells and whistles was about 2000.00 but of course my wife made some salesmans day. She went in and said my husband wants a miller DVI I want to get everything he needs to go with it. I almost choked when she brought it out on christmas day. There was the DVI and the spool gun and the dual bottle cart etc etc. I am not complaining and If I ever need to weld aluminum or stainless I am ready .

The other big different I see with stick is elctode lead length. You can run 100 foot of cable out to the electode holder with a stick and no problem it is a bit of money but that is all. I could not imagine getting a 100 foot torch for a mig. Either one works fine for someone and for some lucky skillful people they both work well.

When you say "continious" do you mean that once the arc starts..it doesnt stop AT ALL..for ANY REASON for a full 15 minutes? I cant sit or stand in the same exact spot for 15 minutes...and once you let off the trigger..or stop to change electrodes with a stick machine...the clock starts all over again!!

Whereas you CAN extend the length of cable to the stinger holder..its mucho better to extend the "AC" to the machine itself..i.e. an extension cord.....same deal with a wire fed machine. You cant feed wire thru a 100 ft long torch cable...15 feet is a long way to do it...you use a large extension cord.

I started out with NO welder..of any sort. Tried AC stick welders many times and only accomplished sticking the rods. Had I been given the chance to use a DC stick machine I MAY HAVE bought one of those in the beginning instead of my HH140 (110V machine) that I practiced on.
After going to night school for welding I found it MUCH easier to weld using a larger machine turned DOWN than a smaller machine running "wide open"...hence my purchase of the HH210. But in eaither case I find it LOTS MORE easy to control my electrode when its mere inches from my control hand...than to control the arc when its at the end of a 14" long stick!!!

Lets not forget the AMPERAGE requirements of both machines. I can run ( per Hobarts specifications) a 210 MIG machine wide open..on a circuit controlled by a 30 amp breaker and wired with 12 ga wire ( per their specs now) Try that sort of thing with a 225 amp stick machine and either the breaker would pop on you every few minutes or ( lets hope not) you would smoke the circuit wiring. Stick machines REQUIRE lots more "power"...in fact the Hobart 225 machines require a 50 amp breaker. My little outdoor shop thats 10 x 14, only has 60 amp service to it because thats all I could tap off the main panel!!

 

[plastikosmd]

avoiding the debate of who's welder is better and why. either machine you have will work, you may have to do a bit more with prep/edge work or preheat with a smaller machine. no welder, it could be brazed just as easily. for anything important, run a test piece and then try to break your weld. finally, regarding stick..the process itself does not require more 'power,' rather the type of machine (transformer/inverter etc), inverters for stick and tig require much less power input for the same amp. machine without loss of duty cycle and at sigificant weight advantage.

 

[Sully2]

... finally, regarding stick..the process itself does not require more 'power,' rather the type of machine (transformer/inverter etc), inverters for stick and tig require much less power input for the same amp. machine without loss of duty cycle and at sigificant weight advantage.

Very very true BUT...with an inverter type of stick (tig) welder...your right back UP ( or even exceed) the cost of a wire fed ( MIG) machine..as compared to the much lower costs of a straight AC stick machine

 

[FredH]

Sure hesitate to reply to this topic , don't want to ruffle feathers but what have I welded with my Lincoln Sp135 ( 110/120 volt ) mig welder .

3/8" to 1/4" : This was on my King Kutter 6' disk harrow . The flat steel that goes from the top of the top link connection to the back of the disk . Originally those were bolted to the angle frame , but now they are welded to the side of the angle ( much like a T weld except sideways rather than vertical ) . This allowed me to drill additional adjustment holes for the back set of disks . Also welded a 4' piece of 4" x 12" ( 3/8" ) I-beam to the top of the disk at the back so I could strap on a old 40 gallon pressure tank for additional weight . Welds have yet to break or even crack .

1/2" to 1/2" : Single pass , max output , fluxcore .035 wire , with max weld length of 5" . This was to install a chain hanger on my Semi Truck . Did not feel like drilling new holes in frame to get chain hanger to fit , So I used 2 pieces of 1/2" by 3" flat , pre-drilled the holes to align with frame holes , then welded both pieces to back side of chain hanger . 10 semi truck chains plus weight of chain hanger is 400+ lbs. hanging on those welds , no breaks or cracks .

Chain hooks to Loader bucket : 3 chain hooks on my TC30 loader bucket . Yesterday was actually using them moving ( or attempting to move ) parts of 2 Black Oak trees that I cut down in lower field . Hooks held but when back of tractor comes off the ground when curling the bucket ( with 738 BH on back ) , I felt maybe I needed to shorten up the pieces of wood a little bit . .

For me , which I feel I am " Typical " home user , the 110/120 model has worked flawlessly . I could of went 220/240 , but did not feel like adding a outlet in shop , plus for the amount of welding I do in a year , could not justify the additional expense , a good 110/120 model versus a good 220/240 model .

My brother on the other hand sold his old Millermatic 35 and bought a new Lincoln 255 mig as he is usually welding in his shop everyday of the week .

Not trying to start another P' ing match , this is just what I have done .

Take Care ,

Fred H.