Welding brackets on tractor frame

[the old grind]

Might not be the first chainsaw scabbard bolted onto a loader tower.

 

[kevin37b]

Thanks for all the feedback. I should have been more specific. I want to weld brackets onto the supports for the FEL that are bolted onto the frame of the tractor. I can drill and tap and bolt on the brackets and it appears that that is safer although will take a lot more time.

Unhook both cables and weld it . You will not hurt that loader frame . Make sure there are no HYD. lines or wires in the area . Kevin .

 

[BigBlue1]

Probably not a very good idea to weld on a frame. Can you not drill and bolt?

That's something I've pondered before. Which impacts the strength of a frame member more? Welding to it or drilling through it? I'd be more inclined to bolt into existing holes if possible, but I can see situations where it isn't possible. Curious as to experienced folks answers...

Rob

 

[OTHill]

I had a tandem train truck come into the shop once with a cracked bottom flange on the frame. Some one had put a piece of 4 in.channel inside the frame on the bottom flanges to mount a hyd pump I think. Two cheap little welds on each end and that's where the frame cracked. From the crystallization of the weld I guess. Mind you a long truck frame gets a lot of stress from twisting and turning which a tractor frame doesn't. If you must weld or bolt stay away from the top and bottom flanges as much as possible. My 2 cents!

 

[5030]

Most every truck frame I've seen (on a big truck not a pickup truck) have heat treated upper and lower flanges and most will have a sticker affixed stating not to weld or drill the flanges (unless the sticker has came off or been painted over. SOP on truck frames. The web isn't and can be drilled or welded on, the flanges cannot be.

.Never seen a tractor with a flanged mainframe. Everyone I've seen (late model) has a flat frame rail, no flanges and most are drilled and/or welded on from the factory.

 

[5030]

Unhook both cables and weld it . You will not hurt that loader frame . Make sure there are no HYD. lines or wires in the area . Kevin .

I never do that unless ground placement dictates a long run between the grounding point and the weld. I always put my ground clamp as close to the point of weld as possible to mitigate any stray welding current from impacting electrical / electronic components.

 

[Garson]

Put your ground clamp close to the point you are welding on.

Current will flow between the arc point and the ground clamp.

You should be fine. No need to disconnect the battery.

In theory there will be a voltage drop between the arc and the ground clamp, and this voltage could drive currents to flow elsewhere, but unlikely, as such currents would see the path of minimum resistance, which is between the arc point and the ground clamp, and not flow elsewhere to any significant degree.

edit: Actually it is the voltage that drives the current flow, and saying the currents would see something is rather simplistic, but actually that is the apparent result at the end of the day...

Yes, agree on keeping your ground clamp close to your weld. When building a cab on my Kioti 7320, welding for 20+ hours with the battery connected caused no problem. But having said that, there is always a risk. It's a personal choice. If you change your toothbrush every 2 weeks you'll want to disconnect your battery ground. : )

 

[American50]

I'm new to welding and just got an arc welder. I want to weld some brackets on the tractors frame and I don't want to damage any electronics. Do I need to disconnect the battery? Both terminals or just NEG?

Just to be safe, I would disconnect the negative battery cable. This is especially true if your tractor is a newer model with electronics. Whenever working on any tractor or other vehicle battery, always disconnect the negative cable first when you change the battery and after a new battery is installed, connect the positive cable first and the negative cable last. The reason for this is that sometimes, folks accidentally tighten the positive battery cable and touch the wrench to ground. With the negative cable off, you won't complete the circuit and destroy the battery.

 

[mikefamig]

I'm new to welding and just got an arc welder. I want to weld some brackets on the tractors frame and I don't want to damage any electronics. Do I need to disconnect the battery? Both terminals or just NEG?

One danger is in damaging the magnets in the ignition magneto. the voltage regulator contains sensitive electronic parts but would probably not be affected because the current should never reach it if your work clamp is grounded properly. I think that the magneto magnets would be fine too if you ground the work clamp near the spot that you are welding but I think that there is some risk of stray current causing trouble.

Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

I'm new to welding and just got an arc welder. I want to weld some brackets on the tractors frame and I don't want to damage any electronics. Do I need to disconnect the battery? Both terminals or just NEG?

The electric current that you apply to the frame of the tractor with the MIG wire will search all paths to earth. If it finds the ground/work clamp then the majority if not all of the current will pass safely back to the welding machine. If the work clamp becomes loose or is not making a good connection to the frame then the current will find another path to go and that is where the danger exists. There is really no telling which path it will find to earth and it will happen quickly and there is the potential for stray current to pass through and damage whatever is in it's path.

Disconnecting the battery has little bearing on the matter that I can think of.

Mike.

 

[CoyPatton]

How new is your tractor?
If new enough that it has electronics everywhere, you will find that welding to the frame does not work well especially as an non pro welder. Why? Because it has some strange alloys that make special process necessary. If older (no electronics, just basic lighting and starting circuits) You probably have a cast iron frame, which still presents problems with welding requiring at a minimum preheat and possibly nickel rods.
As for welding on anything that has a battery, I prefer to remove both terminals, as it prevents any electric current from the welding process to loop through any circuit on the equipment.
In summary, drilling, tapping and bolting is simpler

 

[ducks13]

If it has any kind of computer you should disconnect it, they don't fail often from welding but it happens sometimes. Disconnecting the battery doesn't do anything.

 

[MarblemountLane]

One rule of thumb when welding on vehicles is make very sure current never passes through bearings. Ground where you are welding, then be sure the stinger never bumps a wheel.

CoyPatton, I’m sure you meant to say carbon steel or mild steel; nobody would make a tractor frame of (very brittle) cast iron. Very old machinery and tools can be forged or wrought iron, but that’s OLD.

I’d do a little research and see if I could learn what that tractor frame really was made of, before considering welding. I wouldn’t worry too much about electronics. The welding arc is a bit of a spark gap transmitter, but you’re not creating an EMP. But what do I know? My tractor is 60+ years old. Perhaps your dealer could answer a few questions.

 

[BubbaSam]

I'm new to welding and just got an arc welder. I want to weld some brackets on the tractors frame and I don't want to damage any electronics. Do I need to disconnect the battery? Both terminals or just NEG?

If I were you Buggs67 I would disconnect BOTH. I had a JD 850 LGP Dozer. One of the track rollers broke. My operator called and had it welded. Of course he must have been a rookie and didn't disconnect the battery. You can disconnect just the ground but I'd disconnected BOTH. Better safe than sorry. Luckily he only blew up the alternator. A lesson learned. Good luck.

BubbaSam

 

[BCinVA]

I'm new to welding and just got an arc welder. I want to weld some brackets on the tractors frame and I don't want to damage any electronics. Do I need to disconnect the battery? Both terminals or just NEG?

I worked for years in the heavy truck industry. We never welded on a frame because they were heat treated, and the welding process could potentially set you up for a stress crack in the frame. Don't know if your frame is heat treated or not, but I would bolt on if possible.

 

[kpsp50]

Don't weld to frame because of warrenty issues

 

[Sberry]

Thousands of new trucks are used as welding platforms every day,,,, thousands and thousands. Thousands of cars welded on in body and muffler shops,, mufflers it would be thousands and thousands. As for my own self,,, had 10 years I welded on 3 a week, maybe 1500 or so and prolly another thousand or so over another 30 years, cars trucks trains, a couple planes ships boats tractors, motorcycles, prolly missed a few.

 

[grsthegreat]

I usually disconnect battery just to be safe, but forgot to the day before yesterday. I had to weld a new bracket to hang the new hydraulic top link cyllinder onto as its hook would not reach my factory hook. I clamped ground wire to vice grip holding bracket. Forgot to unhook battery. Welded with stick machine.
no problems with tractor.
did 3 hours of chipping and wood hauling today. Everything works 100%

 

[madisonhawk]

You should disconnect the battery ground cable as this will prevent the possibility of your battery from exploding from the electrical current that is flowing from the welder.

 

[5030]

You should disconnect the battery ground cable as this will prevent the possibility of your battery from exploding from the electrical current that is flowing from the welder.

So longs as the current flow is as close as possible to the weldment and so long as the weldment isn't in close proximity to any electronic component. disconnection the NEGATTVE battery cable, not the POSITIVE, is not necessary and never has been.

What you state is internet folklore.