Welding Question

[Holzster]

Hello all,

I need help, I have not welded before but I would like to start, nothing big just a few repairs, etc around my 23 acres.
I need to know what kind of welder to get. nothing big or fancy just something easy, reliable, inexpensive.
Any ideas?

Thanks
Holzster

 

[bobodu]

Boy Howdy...did ya ever open up a can of worms here...LOL!
For general dinking around,you outta be able to find a good used stick welder for $100.Look for a name brand (ain't gonna get into that part...) 150amp and 230 volts.I WANNA MIG!!! I ran short of welders around here due to the owners taking theirs home for their new shops and a barn fire.Had a little welding job that I really wanted to get done and bought a 100a/230v from Homier for $40.There was no shipping because the world H/Q is just down the road.It does the job but shuts down to cool after 1 stick.I am satisfied for $40!! Hey!! I just thought of something..bought a 3/4 ton Chevy for $50.Needs some simple work and gas tanks...gonna put that up in trade for a welder!!! Geez...I glad you brought this up!!
See....even the new guys are invaluable...WELCOME!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Syncro]

Like the previous poster said, a can of worms.

My suggestion would be a simple stick welder, you can buy a brand new Lincoln AC 225 complete with helmit and everything you need at Hone Depot for about $200. It will last a life time and will handle most jobs on a farm easily. Its not for real thin sheet metal, but it will sure weld up heavy stuff like farm equipement with ease.
I bought one almost 40 years ago (same model that you can still get, that says something about the design) and it still works great. The stick rods are also cheap. For a first welder on a farm that would be my No. 1 choice.

 

[PineRidge]

We're using the same welder that Syncro suggested. We bought ours from a friend over 10 years ago for 100 bucks and it works great with the heavy stuff. It's also easy to operate and your welding ability will increase as you practice a bit. We have given ours a real workout in the past year around here. Guess we gotta stop breaking stuff.

 

[EastTexFrank]

As the others have said, this could get downright contentious but here's my thoughts on the subject. Please remember that this is coming from a really bad welder.

Just for sticking (sorry about that) things back together on the farm, a stick welder is probably the best choice. The only problem is the availability of 240v power to run it. For example, if something breaks at the farm and I can't fix it with the little 110v MIG, I have to load it up and haul it over to my house to use the stick welder as there is no easily accessable 240v at the farm. There are smaller 110v stick welders out there (I think I saw a Campbell Hausfeld at WalMarts) but I don't know anything about them and besides, if you want a machine with any "beef", it really has to be 240v. I think that if I were limited to a 110v machine, I would probably stay with the little MIGs. They're more expensive but are a little easier to use. They're really good on the thin stuff but can be overpowered by heavier farm iron without a lot of beveling and multiple passes. Their duty cycle also tends to be rather short but that will be true of any 110v machine.

OK guys, shoot me down in flames. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[keeney]

I would say that if you really want to do heavy welding where 240v power is not available, then you need a gas or deisel powered generator/welder setup. Now you are talking some bigger bucks.

I have also seen vehicle-engine-belt-powered welding setups that off-roader's find useful for fixing busted suspensions in the middle of nowhere. They are basically a large alternator.

- Rick

 

[Bird]

Yep, you'll get lots of "opinions" as to what's best to start with. My first was buying a little portable Mapp gas/oxygen rig (cheaper than acetylene and the salesman convince me it was safer since I'd be keeping it in an attached garage). And it actually worked quite well after I learned to use it. Then I used one of the Lincoln 225 AC and really like it, but when I bought something to use on the farm, I didn't want to spend much money, so I bought a little 110 volt "Miller de Mexico" stick welder with a 10% duty cycle. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Slow? Yep, but since I didn't get in any hurry, it did everything I needed to do, was light enough to carry around easily and I really enjoyed using it. My brother told me it wouldn't do for the thickness of metal I used for the brackets on my FEL bucket to mount the 4' forks, but I did it anyway and never had a weld break. Now everyone says the MIG is better and I think they're right from what I've seen others do with one, but I only tried one, one time, and didn't get the feed speed right and really didn't care for it.

 

[hazmat]

I highly suggest you take a class at the local vocational school. I got 60 hours of training for $180. Got to try stick, MIG, and TIG welding with an instructor telling me which knob to turn up/down. If you don't have the time to commit to a formal class, find a buddy to come over for a Saturday & show you the basics.

Welding is truely a combination of art and science. Stick is heavy on art, low on science (just plain aren't that many knobs to turn). MIG is lower on art, high on science - there is less "technique" more "setup". TIG is high on both.

Stick excels at steel 1/8thick and up
Smaller MIGS are great for sheet goods & can add aluminum capability for extra $ (spool gun)
Larger MIGS are great for sheet goods & structural steel & aluminum (with spool gun)
TIG will weld everything (must get AC for Aluminum) - but you gotta pay to play - big bucks. Most, if not all, TIG machines can run stick as well.

One thing that should be noted is that DC stick welding is "easier" (striking and maintaing the arc) than AC stick welding, but a DC stick welder costs more... (example Hobart 235 amp is $500 vs. $300 for AC)

After using the pro-quality machines at my class, there is no way I'd get a 110V machine.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I highly suggest you take a class at the local vocational school )</font>

I think that's good advice. What little welding I've done, I learned from reading a book, playing with the equipment (practicing, I meant to say /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif), and watching others. I am, by no means, a welder, but I managed to stick a lot of metal together, never had any break, and could always grind off the stuff that looked too bad. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Dargo]

I learned how to weld on an old Lincoln AC welder and used that for years. It finally got to where it was passing to the great welder in the sky, so I had to buy another. This time I bought a nice Hobart welder that does AC and DC. Man! If I'd known how much easier it is to weld with DC, I would have dumped my AC welder long ago. With a good DC welder and some 1/8" 6013 rods, I could have my daughter making lovely, smooth as caulk, welds in 1/2 an hour.

Now, even with a nice DC welder and the 6013 rods, it still will take a bit of practice to do vertical welds and overhead welds, but it can be learned fairly easy. I've never had my "new" welder over on the AC side. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Working on a bush hog and some other items, I burned through two 10 pound boxes of 1/8" rods in one day! Just for the heck of it, I had a 1/4" rod (don't know where it came from, but it looks giant) and tried to weld some 1/2" plate with it. Even cranked all the way up, my 235 amp welder wouldn't burn a 1/4" rod. It must take a beast to burn those!

 

[JimR]

You have got to start somewhere. Here is what I did. My first welder was a Lincoln stick welder. The Tombstone looking creature that I have had since 1976. These you can find for $75.00-100.00 used with wheels. About 7-8 years ago I decided I need a MIG welder. I bought the small Lincoln wire feed with gas conversion from H/D and the cart it goes on. I have one bottle for it for welding steel. I also bought another tank for welding aluminum and stainless steel. My next one if I ever buy another welder will be a TIG machine. Take a course and save yourself a lot of grief of figuring out what to do. Learn from someone that welds and be smart. Always wear your glasses. You only have one set of eyes.

 

[Tx_Firefighter]

I'm an amateur weldor myself. I venture to say that more welding rods have been burned by Lincoln arc welders than all others combined. They make a great little welder and they work for generations.

I personally run a Miller Bobcat welder. It's an engine drive and not really something a first time buyer would consider, but it has it's place.

I think there's some other welder fellow on here. Scrap Iron Sam or something like that.

Just kidding there guys, take it easy.

Go over to www.harveylacey.com to see a real weldor at work. He's a good guy that answers questions for me occasionally.

 

[kevinro]

I have had really good luck with a small wire feed welder, using flux core wire. I have a Lincoln Weld Pak 100HD Wire Feed Welder. You can find them at Home Depot for about $300 bucks. It runs on 120volts, and can be plugged in just about anywhere you have a 15A outlet. It only weighs about 25 pounds or so. I have run several spools of wire through my machine. Works nicely.

I really like wire feed better than stick. Its just easier to deal with, especially for smaller materials up to 1/4" thick. In general, anything in this price range is really only good for 1/4" materials on a single pass. Thicker materials are going to require multiple passes regardless of stick or wire feed.

If you are going for a light duty machine where you don't weld all that often, wire feed may be a better option for you, even though it costs a little more. Stick welding requires a little more practice. Wire feed is sort of a squeeze and squirt metal approach. I find it easier to teach others as well. You don't have to master the feed motion. Fluxcore wire is also easier to clean up than stick.

There is a MIG option, which allows you to weld using a shielding gas. Don't bother with it. You can do about 99% of 'around the property' welding with just fluxcore.

I also have a Miller TIG welder, plasma cutter, stick welder, and oxy torch setup for all of my other welding projects. I still use this little machine for about 80% of my welding projects.

In general, if you are trying to weld something > 1/4", then you need to get more instruction on how to do it from a community college or tech school. This is the case no matter what sort of welder you end up with. Equipment in the categories you or I would buy can't generate enough heat to properly weld materials much thicker than 1/4". It also would imply a material that is supposed to support more weight or stress than welding a fender back on your tractor. In that case, it really pays to have had instruction on how to do it properly.

I took a great class at the local community college where I learned TIG, MIG, STICK, aluminum, gas, and brazing. I was able to use a wide variety of different machines and techniques. Great class, highly recommend finding one near you.

 

[Holzster]

Thanks for all the advice /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think I will look into the local schools here.

 

[hazmat]

You're welcome. Good luck!

 

[Soundguy]

I didn't know if I was gonna like welding or not.. so i got my feet wet with a little walmart campbel hausfeld 110v stick welder.. 70 amp job.. cost 89 bucks.

I now know I like to weld, and have built up some chops on it.

I plan on getting a big 'real' stick welder now.. You can get them for 185-200 bucks like the others pointed out. I'll keep my small box for thin metal, and repairs I can make using a genny to run it.

Lots of pros' / cons to mig vs stick. No doubt about it.. stick lets you do some artistic work without stopping to change electrodes every 30 seconds.

That said.. there are a few good things about stick as well. For one thing.. in strong wind... mig ain't gonna work good as your shielding gas blows away... stick burns it's own flux onthe electrode right at the arc... not a pretty weld as a mig.. but an ancient lincoln 200+ amp ac stick welder can glue some pretty huge chunks of iron together with some authority, and no question as to if you got good penetration. Also, as a last resort.. you can buy chamfering rods, if you really just have to cut some metal and have no other way to do it.. a chamfer rod on a big honkin stick welder can burn a nice ragged cut in some decently thick metal... try to imagine cutting sheet metal with lightning.... it works.. but it's scary.

Stick welder gives you the opertunity to be very versatile with electrode usage, size and composition can cahnge from electrode to electrode... and yes.. you get reaaaaal god at changing electrodes... often.. real often... And your chipping hammer arm builds up a decent sized muscle.. makes you look like a fidler crab.

One last bit of advice. Get a hood that you like and feels comfortable.. most like the auto tint ones.. but above all get one that feels ok.. then get a set of long cuff gloves, leg and foot chaps, arm chaps or a vest/full apron. You may not believe it.. but slag can jump into a seemingly closed tennisshoe and make you do funny dances while trying to get your foot into the horse trough...

Soundguy

 

[CTyler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( That said.. there are a few good things about stick as well. For one thing.. in strong wind... mig ain't gonna work good as your shielding gas blows away )</font>

With a Mig you change over to a sheilded/flux wire. Essentialy becomes a wire feed welder.

One thing you can do, among others, with stick is use hard facing rod. Not sure if you can get this for a Mig or not. I haven't really looked to see what if/any special wires you can get for Mig welders.

I'd like to build up the edges of my bucket since the last 6" on each side has worn back quite abit already.

 

[lmiller]

Holzster, good luck wit whatever you choose, there's nothing like a small welder for fixing up al sorts of things and making stuff you didn't know you needed /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Be careful of some of the less expensive choices mentioned above, they really are cheaper. The older Miller and Lincoln "tombstones" are great machines but they started making lighter weight and less durable models in the 80's. One way to spot this is "duty cycle", this ishow many minutes out of 10 you can weld. In other words 60% duty cycle can weld for 6 minutes out of 10 (which is reasonable) and 10% can only weld 1 minute out of 10 /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I just bought a Tecverter from www.krazearc.com
to do maintenance on my new Kubota. At 6 lbs it is a far cry from the 250 lb 3phase mig machine I sold when I closed my shop but it runs on 110 volts, does dc stick and tig and it weights 6lbs.

Whatever you buy, try learning with 7014 rod, its one of the easiest!

Lou

 

[Bluecheck546]

lmiller, you meant 6013 rod /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif, I thought you did. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JimR]

My God, that welder is so small that you could put it on your shoulder and become a walking dynamo. I have never seen anything like that before. The cost is right up there and well worth it if the unit delivers what you want from it.