Welder Recommendations

[ArlyA]

The OP was asking about getting a welder and getting into the process. Lets not over complicate it for him.

 

[paulsharvey]

The OP was asking about getting a welder and getting into the process. Lets not over complicate it for him.

I believe about 2/3rds down, he got his brother's Linclon 140 wire feed machine. It should be a functional, if limited, machine. Nice thing, parts should be readily available, from Amazon, welding supply places, and even your TSC/Rural King/Home Depot.

Get some 0.030 Flux core, a hood, and start playing.

 

[5030]

I was just about out of hardfacing wire so I bought a 30 pound spool of Blue Demon ground contact wire the other day. Set me back almost 450 bucks. While I've ran 75-25 with the Lincoln wire, BD recommends 100% Argon for even single pass but no preheat. Will see how well it withstands abrasion from ground contact. Lincoln wire went through the roof. Over 600 bucks for a spool now.

 

[paulsharvey]

I'm divided on, "if I could only have one welding process". I'm tempted to say AC/DC stick, because it is so good in less than perfect situations, but now that I have a MIG, I almost never use the stick....

 

[5030]

I have them all and I use them all. The situation is what predicates what I or my employees use. You are dorrect to a point and that is, not every process is ideal for everything and I still enjoy burning rod with my Lincoln ac-dc engine drive. Something about that sound always intrigued me.

 

[5030]

The issue with SMAW, like flux cored wire is it's spatter intensive and that requires a lot of post weld cleanup, something we don't like to do simply because time is money and out finished products have to not only be properly welded but look good as well.

Have no issue with any process and again I like burning sticks, but again it's messy. In shop it will always be MIG or pulsed MIG or TIG. Actually, I like O/A more, but O/A welding requires skill just like TIG, whereas 90% of MIG requires little to no skill and why MIG is referred to as Glue Gun Welding. Get you heat and wire speed right and zip away. Of course MIG does require proper fit up. just like all disciplines do. With the correct settings, your only limiting factor is the welders duty cycle, the amount of wire and gas available and of course how hot the gun gets and why most all production welding today is MIG and if you really want to push the duty cycle parameters, you can buy water cooled MIG guns.

In essence, you can hire a flunky off the street and so long as the pre prep and fitup is correct and sufficient amperage and wire speed is employed, even that flunky can produce acceptable welds.

Happens to be what RV manufacturers do. They offer a bit more than fast food places and employ flunkie welders. Their welding skill is really zip, but the 'Glue Gun' makes them look 'professional'

Why RV builders have continuing frame failure issues as their flunkie welders don't have a clue what acceptable penetration is and don't really care. If it's 'commercially acceptable' it's all good and their supervisors don't know either.

The advent of Pulsed MIG makes a poor join up look even better. I own an ESAB pulsed MIG (REBEL) and I will say the weld looks just like a TIG weld at 3 times the speed. Even a flunkie can obtain the 'stacked dimes' look.

 

[California]

Several steps below the quality of those RV welds, turn over a piece of steel China furniture and see some really crappy welds.

I'm convinced the welders widely used there 20 years ago were the same as the HF's 90 amp AC flux transformer welder that I expected would be a step up from my first welder, a $50 AC-230 antique stick welder.

Nope. The Harbor Freight AC flux welds looked as bad as the trash under the Chinese furniture. I went back to using the stick welder. Then eventually bought a used Century 130A 120V wire welder that did nice work. More recently two more welders, one is dual voltage.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Buy a Harbor Freight multi process, start out with 75/25 gas mig welding, learn how to stick weld with 6013 then 6010 rods. Make sure you have 220V power.

 

[5030]

Again, no matter what welder you buy today, regardless of brand or process, they will all be 100% solid state machines (IGBT) and while they are very user friendly with built in pre sets and intuitive programming, if they fail, you cannot repair them. Consequently, always buy a machine with a good guarantee and one you can return with little hassle. I'd suggest starting out to buy a used transformer machine as you can bugger things up and they will still work. Once an IGBT machine fails, it becomes an expensive rock.

Because I have employees using my machines daily, I went with HF machines simply because of their guarantee and ease of replacement. So far, so good as none have puked due to user abuse yet... But if one does, replacement is easy and painless.

Read a lot of posts on Welding Web concerning failed IGBT machines and the grief associated with repairs or replacement. Because mine are related to a business, I cannot afford the long term loss of a machine due to failure.

 

[California]

... 100% solid state machines (IGBT)...you cannot repair them. Consequently, always buy a machine with a good guarantee..

This is why I've emphasized the third-party warranty listed alongside the purchase price on Amazon's cheap beginner welders. (And the expensive ones too). For an amateur, down for a while while you wait for that 100% purchase cost reimbursement should be an acceptable tradeoff for a cheap purchase price.

But I like your advice that HF's immediate exchange warranty is the best possible warranty for a welder in pro use where downtime is unacceptable. That sounds more practical than a backup spare expensive welder standing by 'just in case'.

I'd suggest starting out to buy a used transformer machine as you can bugger things up and they will still work.

There's near nothing inside a transformer welder that's delicate. Or easily damaged. Or difficult to repair. Just massive near-indestructible components. At least in the old machines that were sold for professional use.

Read a lot of posts on Welding Web concerning failed IGBT machines and the grief associated with repairs or replacement. Because mine are related to a business, I cannot afford the long term loss of a machine due to failure.

Yup. Looking at this from the cheapskate end of the spectrum (occasional farm repairs and nothing time-critical), IGBT is great for convenience. While an elderly $100 transformer welder is a great backup. As well, its something to learn on that a beginner can't damage.

 

[paulsharvey]

This is why I've emphasized the third-party warranty listed alongside the purchase price on Amazon's cheap beginner welders. (And the expensive ones too). For an amateur, down for a while while you wait for that 100% purchase cost reimbursement should be an acceptable tradeoff for a cheap purchase price.

But I like your advice that HF's immediate exchange warranty is the best possible warranty for a welder in pro use where downtime is unacceptable. That sounds more practical than a backup spare expensive welder standing by 'just in case'.

There's near nothing inside a transformer welder that's delicate. Or easily damaged. Or difficult to repair. Just massive near-indestructible components. At least in the old machines that were sold for professional use.

Yup. Looking at this from the cheapskate end of the spectrum (occasional farm repairs and nothing time-critical), IGBT is great for convenience. While an elderly $100 transformer welder is a great backup. As well, its something to learn on that a beginner can't damage.

So, I have seen, and kinda thought about those Amazon, $3/month for 36 month 3rd party guarantees, but never dug into them much. No, not doing that on a coffee maker, or blender; but for a $300-600 welder/lathe/plasma cutter; i wonder how easy/well it works

 

[Cub 7275]

I don't understand how anyone could 'weld' like that, just laying bead on top of one side. Amateur here, but the minimum spec while welding is that the pool has to cut into both sides of a joint and have some obvious depth.

Maybe I wasn't clear. During the welding process, hood down, if I don't see any penetration on one side of a weld then I stop immediately and figure out what the problem is. I thought everyone does this. No?

Yep, once proficient the person welding should know by sight and sound if their weld is going well. If not, stop, grind it out and start again.

If you cannot see the weld your making, how can you tell if the weld is being properly done, or not? It's been over 48 yrs since I welded in Jr HS Metal Shop. Made a bench press out of angle iron and used it for over 25 - 30 yrs. Had 325lbs on it and it held up perfectly. All angle iron

Before we painted it blk, i remember taking a sm pointed like hammer and always knocking off the slag. We only had stick welders then, but i got an A on the project & the welds were pretty robust.

Being in my 60's eyesight is becoming an issue. Mig and Tig gas nozzles interfere with getting a good view of the weld puddle. Also the use it or lose it adage is very true. Trying to do the same welds compared to back when welding everyday is frustrating. Lack of muscle memory I guess. It takes me about a full day of welding to get comfortable again, though most tasks don't take that long.

We can also note; this jack took load in an un-intended way, and was side loaded, at the end of a 24" lever. It was designed for straight tension (the jack pulling vertically away from the tongue), but when they drug the jack; they introduced a bending moment. If it was Designed to resist that, it would be specifically welded at the corners, to prevent the start of the bending.

Still, more amps, slower travel speed, better pre-weld cleaning, and a post weld/post clean-up inspection would show the weld wasn't great.

So, if Mig, the pass should have looked down to the frame if swirling, or should have been at a 45, right in the V of the joint, with a slower speed, and "possibly" more amps, but not necessarily.

If Arc, your amps look fine, but the rod needs swept down to the frame more on each "C", looks like we just stuck the rod and got an arc and rolled with it.

A weld is a weld and that the jack got loaded the wrong way is irrelevant. Not sure why you keep excusing the poor workmanship. That Mig weld had a lack of fusion which is seen time and time again with Mig. Here is a picture of a section of a pressure vessel that failed. The entire v notch was filled with weld, but as you can see there is only a paper thin amount of fusion (red arrow) on the outside edge, which is what one would see inspecting the weld from the outside. The vessel passed the pressure check only to fail in the field from pressure spikes it would have easily handled if the weld was good.


Bottom line is Mig makes it easy to make a decent looking weld that isn't worth a $hit. Rookie welders need to get good at Mig before doing structural projects where life and limb are at risk. Welding is fun and rewarding. Like anything, know your limitations and use sound judgment when considering the failure modes of what you are working on.

 

[Runner]

Bottom line is Mig makes it easy to make a decent looking weld that isn't worth a $hit. Rookie welders need to get good at Mig before doing structural projects where life and limb are at risk. Welding is fun and rewarding. Like anything, know your limitations and use sound judgment when considering the failure modes of what you are working on.

This is why I am extremely reluctant to weld anything for anyone else. I know I'm not a great weldor, but am willing to accept the risk for my own stuff. I will occasionally weld something for a close friend or family member if it's not life-safety related, but otherwise, don't want the liability.

That being said, I've never had anything I welded break, other than things that were just tacked together for proof of concept. But I still know that I am not a professional weldor and can't guarantee my work.

 

[LouNY]

Well to get back on track;
My wife got me a new welder for my birthday, it's an Arccaptain TIG200PACDC.
It is capable of DC stick and AC or DC TIG. My brother brought up a small bracket for me to weld and while I haven't used this welder for anything so far, decided to give it try on stick welding.
I was quite surprised by how well it worked, it's also the first arc welder I've used that has hot start, and arc force as well as the amperage.
Did a bit of playing on some scrap 1/8" with some 6011 rod, then welded up his bracket.
As of now I'll say that this little chinese welder is pretty good.
Especially for the money.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

My first welder was a Lincoln PowerMIG 180C, which I still have. Later on, I added an AlphaTIG and a Titanium Unlimited 200. The latter machine is from Harbor Freight. It does MIG, stick, and DC TIG. I thought it would be nice to have a backup and also have more than one type of wire loaded at all times.

The Titanium has worked perfectly, and the torch is handier than the big Lincoln torch. I rarely touch the Lincoln now.

There is nothing wrong with MIG. America used it to make stuff that was used to fight World War Two, and there were no news stories about MIG disasters. If you're an idiot, you will make bad MIG welds that fail, but that is also true of every other process. Just don't be an idiot. Learn to make a good weld. It's not rocket science. MIG makes strong welds very quickly and easily.

That being said, I agree with whoever said you should do stick first. Stick will work fine in horrible conditions, and it's cheap. It's hard to learn, but that is helpful, because if you do MIG first, you will be less motivated to learn stick later. I am horrible at stick because I have not had the patience to study it.

A 115V welder can weld large stuff if you do multiple passes, but there are plenty of dual-voltage welders out there that make it unnecessary for you to choose.

Some advice about carts: don't buy one. They're all pretty bad compared to what you can make for yourself. I took US General tool carts and made rolling frames for them. Most carts are cheap and flimsy, and they put all your stuff out there in the open, in the way, with the grinding dust. A tool cart will keep everything clean and handy. I put something like $325 into each of my carts, and they're way better than anything I can buy. These days, call it $425.

I used the existing bolt holes in the carts, so they aren't modified at all. The frames screw right on.

The Lincoln and Miller carts I've seen are especially pathetic, and the prices are silly.

 

[stevem5215]

Agree 100% with the guy above. Learning stick welding is what I did first. I did it poorly and my welder friend who taught me laughed at my early welds. Practicing made me better but the MIG even with no gas works nicely even with a cheap welder (as long as you are not pushing it's limits too much). My tractor bucket hooks have never fallen off ! lol

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

Here is a great example of a stupid, overpriced welding cart you should not buy. This is a Miller, and I found it online for $360+. I had something very similar from Vulcan, and it was very sturdy, but it was also stupid. I paid $100 and sold it for $50 just to make it go away.

Note how everything is out in the open. Note the tiny hooks for holding cables. Those hooks don't really work. Cables are stiff, and they don't like to coil nicely. If you use hooks like that, your cables will stick out and get in your way. Whatever you put on this cart will end up covered in abrasive grit and metal dust, and you will have no place at all for things like clamps, consumables, and pliers. And where do you put your tanks? Add in the obscene cost, and it's a recipe for regret.

 

[TMGT]

Here is a great example of a stupid, overpriced welding cart you should not buy. This is a Miller, and I found it online for $360+. I had something very similar from Vulcan, and it was very sturdy, but it was also stupid. I paid $100 and sold it for $50 just to make it go away.

Note how everything is out in the open. Note the tiny hooks for holding cables. Those hooks don't really work. Cables are stiff, and they don't like to coil nicely. If you use hooks like that, your cables will stick out and get in your way. Whatever you put on this cart will end up covered in abrasive grit and metal dust, and you will have no place at all for things like clamps, consumables, and pliers. And where do you put your tanks? Add in the obscene cost, and it's a recipe for regret.

View attachment 3686365

Have to disagree about the Vulcan cart, I have one I use for my XMT 304 with a 24a feeder. My only complaint is the tank holder is too small for my 300cuft tank, but that's a pretty easy mod.
The hangers for the cables are decent, no problem wrapping the 15ft 400a gun up.

I bought it open box so was on $85, I was going to build one, but it was another project on the long list I already have.

Now I am going to one day finish my cart for the TIG, that one is already started (started it only about 8yrs ago!)

 

[Runner]

I like to cut a piece of pipe in half and weld to the top side of my cable hangers to make a little smoother surface for them to hang on.

Have seen people use all kinds of things for this purpose, such as small wheels cut in half, garden hose racks, etc.

 

[5030]

Here is a great example of a stupid, overpriced welding cart you should not buy. This is a Miller, and I found it online for $360+. I had something very similar from Vulcan, and it was very sturdy, but it was also stupid. I paid $100 and sold it for $50 just to make it go away.

Note how everything is out in the open. Note the tiny hooks for holding cables. Those hooks don't really work. Cables are stiff, and they don't like to coil nicely. If you use hooks like that, your cables will stick out and get in your way. Whatever you put on this cart will end up covered in abrasive grit and metal dust, and you will have no place at all for things like clamps, consumables, and pliers. And where do you put your tanks? Add in the obscene cost, and it's a recipe for regret.

View attachment 3686365

Interesting and false comment about the Vulcan wheeled welder cabinet. Not the cheap Chinese one in your picture either. I have 2 actually, they both carry 3 120 cubic foot bottles and numerois machines and are very well built. One has my Pro-Tig on it plus an everlast water cooler and one plasma cutter, the other has a pair of Hobart MIGS in it and a second plasma cutter. Drawers all lock, operate smoothly and have plenty of room inside even enough room for 2 hoods. I really don't believe you know what you are talking about as the Vulcan cabs are top shelf. My employees are very happy with them as well.