well question

[badbowtie]

I have a well at my house that is 6' round and about 20 feet deep it has holes about 1-1/2" round evey cuple inches all the way around and all the way up and down it. Around this time of year I have to haul water from about the end of august to the first in january. The reat of the year it comes out my overflow most of the time. I have to dump about 1100 gallons a week in it since I loose some back into the ground. My pump sits about 16-18" inches off the bottom of my well. I was woundering at this time of the year while it is so low could I remove the big acces lid some how not sure my tractor will lift it. Get the step ladder out and get in there and dig maybe another 3' or maybe 6' deep I am hoping 3' in the center and have to winch bucks of dirt out and then lower a 3' x 3' concrete pipe down in it and then lower my pump down to about 12" off the bottom of the new peice. I really think that would get me low enough down in the ground to never have to haul water again. Any ideas or ever heard of anybody ever do anything like this.

 

[inveresk]

I don't know much about wells but there seems to be a good deal of advice online about well deepening. From a quick search, this article offers good information on deepening but also provides other solutions for drought situations. There were other sources of information if you google.

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/dwgb/documents/dwgb-1-16.pdf

 

[gauthier]

Well,,,sure you probably could,,but sounds risky.

Might need to get you a well drilled

 

[Mousefield]

First off think safety if you are contemplating going 20 feet down a well. What makes you think going 3-6 feet deeper will give you the water you want? Not sure how you can tell where your water table from August to January is going to be. Perhaps you could look at getting a storage tank or cistern for when you need to truck in water from August to January, that way you don't loose a bunch seeping out of your well. As gauthier suggested you may need to look at drilling a well.

 

[Mace Canute]

If you do decide to enter your well, remember that the oxygen lever may not be high enough to keep you conscious or alive. You have to ventilate it and make absolutely sure there is a breathable atmosphere at the bottom. Confined spaces aren't something to take lightly. Chances are you won't have a problem at all, but you do have to take the appropriate precautions.

 

[badbowtie]

At this time of year if I drain my well to the bottom with a pump it will fill the bottom 2' back up almost instantly I have done that several times in a row and it refills almost instantly which is why I think I will be okay. If for some reason It doesn't work atleast I can say I tried. The cost of putting in a cistern or putting another well is way out of the question. I know of a couple people in the are that had wells put in and they wanted to make sure they never hauled water and the companys that did them quit at 20' and said you will be fine. They never make it all year niether I think they are part owners of the companys that charge to haul water.

 

[Egon]

If you do decide to enter your well, remember that the oxygen level may not be high enough to keep you conscious or alive. You have to ventilate it and make absolutely sure there is a breathable atmosphere at the bottom. Confined spaces aren't something to take lightly. Chances are you won't have a problem at all, but you do have to take the appropriate precautions.

Make sure you follow this advice. If you are working with someone and the person in the hole goes down the chances are very high that a second person will join them. Consider a safety harness and the necessary gear to lift a person out of the well.

An oxygen detector would also be nice to have. Where to get one I cannot advise. [Back when the Company had them on a shelf just waiting to be used]

As the digging it should be possible [depending on soil type] but will be uncomfortable. You may want to think about making a smaller hole and lining it with concrete rings that fit inside the original casing.

Note:
If the original casing is undercut it may slide down. If your water lines go through the casing they may break.

When lifting material out of the hole things can happen. A bucket full of dirt could hurt if it hits you.

You may want to use a sump pump to keep the bottom of the well dry when digging. This may involve some electrical concerns.

Your well is obviously working with surface water.[have you had the water tested? This may be OK but is usually frowned upon. Do the local drillers bore the wells or do they actually drill them?

Think about a deeper drilled well.:thumbsup:

 

[shiver]

To be honest, I think you should start looking at whether or not you can increase the yield with using driven points into the bottom of the well or other ways
of driving perforated piping into the bottom of the well (you may need to move
your pump into that perforated pipe).

Start investigating using modern methods on traditional / hand dug wells versus
using shovel.

Driven point wells or shallow wells are another option you might want to look at and start with scratch possibly.

 

[FastPauly]

Where are you in relationship to the Brookville Lake/Dam facility.....any chance your water table is directly influenced by the Winter pooling level? The link below will show the level activity of the resevoir...it shows that the level has been on a steady drop (intentional release) starting mid August. It has dropped aprox 2 feet so far.....they will take it down an additional few feet in preparation for the Spring flows.

If there is a direct relationship here then going down a few extra feet would have a direct positive result.

As Digger O"dell and others have stated.....play it SAFE!!:thumbsup:

USGS Real-Time Water Data for USGS 03275990 BROOKVILLE LAKE AT BROOKVILLE, IN

 

[badbowtie]

I am a ware of the ozygen issue I am still trying to figure that out for sure. But my main concrete sides will not sink and break my lines of since It is 6' round and I will only be making the hole in the center of my well 3' round. I am about 4 miles from brookville dam but for elevation purpose I am really close. Since I am not on a spring currently sice my well has poures in it all the way down the sides all the way around just takes ground water. I was always wondering about driving pipes in the ground in the center and having them bring water up into my well. I am not sure but my pump is about 2' long and about 5" round and the intake is about in the middle of the pump anybody know how low I can lower my pump down to the bottom of what I have and try that first.

 

[tommu56]

I am a ware of the ozygen issue I am still trying to figure that out for sure. But my main concrete sides will not sink and break my lines of since It is 6' round and I will only be making the hole in the center of my well 3' round. I am about 4 miles from brookville dam but for elevation purpose I am really close. Since I am not on a spring currently sice my well has poures in it all the way down the sides all the way around just takes ground water. I was always wondering about driving pipes in the ground in the center and having them bring water up into my well. I am not sure but my pump is about 2' long and about 5" round and the intake is about in the middle of the pump anybody know how low I can lower my pump down to the bottom of what I have and try that first.

Sense you have a submersible pump I would concider poking a 8" hole in the bottom of you well about 5' down and put the pump in there'

I didn't see what your soil type is but if its soft you could jet the pipe in with out much trouble.

If its rock drilling is the only option to lower the pump or switch to a shallow well jet pump then you could get uction down the 2' you need.
tom

 

[Mousefield]

You could look at putting in a small tank (500 gallon?) near the well and either have a float or timer on the well pump. This way it will fill up the tank as needed and you then have the tank full. Once the tank is full, if you put a float control in it, then the pump will not come on until water is used out of the tank and the float drops. On our system we have a float in the 2,000 gallon storage tank and when the float drops the well will top it up. Works great for our application.

 

[badbowtie]

I am not sure what the soil is like but I am thinking already being 20' down I don't think it will be rocky I have done some reading on jetting pipe in but figured I really need to be way bigger than 2" diameter. I figured If I am going to set my pump down in it I need a decent size diameter maybe 12" min.
I thought about another holding tank with a float pump but just not in the budget right know.

 

[tommu56]

I am not sure what the soil is like but I am thinking already being 20' down I don't think it will be rocky I have done some reading on jetting pipe in but figured I really need to be way bigger than 2" diameter. I figured If I am going to set my pump down in it I need a decent size diameter maybe 12" min.
I thought about another holding tank with a float pump but just not in the budget right know.

Most wells are drilled 6" I was thinking of just getting your pump down so it could get the last 2' of water out you did say it would keep running in at the 2' level

A piece of 6" pvc pipe then take a 1/2" steel pipe flatten the the end to create a fan hook it to a hose put it down in side the 6" and press down on 6" while washing the bottom of the dirt under the pipe out with the lance

tom

 

[badbowtie]

Okay I think I will try the 6" pipe trick I may even try it sunday I am going to cut firewood saturday it is getting cold. So can you describe more what to do with the 6" pvc and how to hook the hose and what to do with the 1/2 steel plate. I am not picturing it is there a picture somewere so I can picture it.

 

[rScotty]

I have a well at my house that is 6' round and about 20 feet deep it has holes about 1-1/2" round evey cuple inches all the way around and all the way up and down it.....dig deeper.....Any ideas or ever heard of anybody ever do anything like this?

From the description it sounds like you have six foot diameter concrete well rings with perforated sides. That's good. Your description sounds like a very standard design for a shallow well. Yes, the concrete lid will be heavy. We could figure yours out with some measurements.

About digging deeper, I see no reason at all why you cannot do that. As an engineer I designed exactly ONE (1) state-approved shallow well like you are describing, so take it with a grain of salt. But that one was done recently and it does sound similar to your description.....five to six foot diameter, heavy top, perforated well rings, about the same depth, with washed gravel & sand fill around the outside and in the bottom. It's pretty common in that type of well to work inside. We all did. Most shallow wells have a low enough inflow that a small pump will pump them enough to work in wet ooze instead of standing water.

If some of the holes in the side walls are making water real good then consider driving some four foot perforated pipe out laterally through those holes to increase the flow. Sometime you can do that with a water jet. Deeper isn't always the only answer.

Be smart about the ventilation, electricity, and lighting. Obviously you should leave the dirt supporting the bottom of the ring walls. Probably ought to have a buddy standing by too....at least at first.
When you get all done inside the well you'll need to re-disinfect it with a chlorine (Chlorox) solution.

And there's always the chance that you will dig down and hit a dry sand layer instead of a wetter layer and "kill the well". Not common, but I've seen it happen - again...., only once and that was in a farm pond decades ago. If that happens in a well it should be easy enough to fix by putting in a layer of clay and compacting it.
good luck, rScotty