Well seems to randomly shut off?????

[OKnewguy]

Well everyone, I have what is a somewhat strange problem. My wife and I bought this acreage about 2 years ago and twice in the last month our water stops. The piping and everything seems to be fine, what happens is the pump shuts down. It is not blowing the breaker, but there is this weird switch in the well house. The switch is old (the house was built in the sixties), and it says something like reset and has an on and off position.
I imediately checked the breaker, which was fine and then I was fixing to switch this switch but then the pump kicked on?? The pump itself was replaced 14 years ago. Does anyone have any ideas, is the wireing to the pump going out? is the pump going out? Any ideas?
Thanks, Dave

 

[_RaT_]

I would eliminate some of the problems by replacing the various equipment that controls/runs the pump. The pressure switch, the pump control or at least the capcitor. Its perhaps the cheapest way to start. Since the problem is intermitent, it sounds like a pressure switch. The contacts or the pressure sensing portion.

 

[MikePA]

A pressure switch turns the pump on (low pressure) and off (higher pressure). Watch the gauge and you should see the pressure dropping (someone is using water or there's a leak) until the pump kicks on.

 

[OKnewguy]

I grew up with a wells and had never seen this goofy little switch reset thing, it had me going down that track because it was the unknown. I replaced my pressure switch about 1.5 years ago, so I had not considered it. Do the contacts get nasty? As with all pipes in this area of the state the pipes sweat this time of year, it could be corroded. To make matters more confussing the pressure tank and switch are in a part of an appartment that is attached to my garage, I rent it out, and do not go in there with out contacting my renter. She is early 20's and never home and somewhat hard to reach.
Does anyone have a switch thing like this for there wells?
Thanks, Dave

 

[SnowRidge]

How many wires go from the weird switch to the well?

 

[boustany]

The hi/low pressure switches I have seen have to be manually reset - its a great way of avoiding filling the basement with water.

My theory is that you may have some sort of thermal cut out (that is possibly what the funny box is). Now, if it is a thermal cut out it could be that the gizmo in the pump house is ailing or the pump is maybe nearing end of life and drawing too much current. In other words there could be a system in place to limit the amount of time too much current flows, even if that current isn't enough to throw the breaker, though it could be enough to smoke the pump.

Some circular saws have something like this.

In any event, the time may have come to replace the whole kit & caboodle - its not that hard to do. At least you'll end up with a reliable water supply and a known set up

 

[OKnewguy]

I believe that there is a standard 12/2 romex going to the switch, the wiring goes up into the wall. It sounds like I need to do some exploring. The comment about it being a thermal switch makes a ton of sense!! I know there was never anything like this on the systems my parents had growing up. They just had the pressure switch and that was it. I just did a major remodel of the main house and when I remodeled I set up an area for a softner and an additional pressure tank. The current tank is way to small. So I was going to add in an additional one that should keep the pump from running as much. I will check things out tomorow, my renter has company over tonight and I don't want to bother them.
Thanks for all the responses, as always this site is great to bounce ideas around and brainstorm for solutions.
Dave

 

[woodchuckie]

On a 14 year old pump I would vote for internal thermal switch. All parts wearing out building up heat.

 

[Egon]

For this type of problem it may be advantageous to have some electrical measuring instruments. Think amperage draw would be first on the list.

Egon

 

[Alan L.]

My well pump was shutting off, or failing to come on when it should. Then it would work fine for a few days and act up again. Turned out to be the control box, which has some relays and such in it. It was full of suicide ants.

 

[SnowRidge]

Suicide ants? Good term. I've had that happen too. Friends of mine had them get into their water heater contacts and do the same thing. Must be something about 'lectricty that the ants like.

 

[slowrev]

One possibility is that you are sucking the water in the well down below the foot valve for the pump. Some pressure switches will shut the pump off if it can't suck up any water. This is to keep the pump from burning up. When this happens you have to manually reset the pressure switch reset lever ? I had to hold it down for a few seconds till it built up to the lower kick on pressure setting, then it was fine, till it sucked the water level down again.

Ben

 

[GerardC]

My pressure switch got corroded a couple of years ago because the water line at the connection started to drip. Same thing as you, intermittent cycles. Replaced the switch, made sure the supply line was secure and haven't had a problem since. I'd start with the switch as it is the cheapest and easiest start to trouble shooting IMO. Good luck.

 

[kensfarm]

My wiring down in well had rubbed against the well pipe from turning off & on.. when it was pulled up.. at least 6 inches of bare wire was showing. I asked how it could work and not short out w/ any bare wire exposed under the water.. (?) why wouldn't the breaker switch cut off.. (?)

 

[boustany]

Water is not a particularly good conductor of electricity.

It is enough of a conductor to give you a shock (it takes much less than an amp to kill ya) but usually not enough to throw a breaker.

I got into a 'discussion' with an electrical engineer colleague about this once. I got an ohm meter and a glass of tap water. The resistance was something like 10K. I put about an inch of salt in the glass. The resistance dropped to 3 K.

He though I somehow faked it ....

 

[slowrev]

Water is not a particularly good conductor of electricity.

//

I don't think pure water will conduct electricity, it is the impurities in it that conduct.

Ben

 

[_RaT_]

You can test your insulation with a Megger meter. It will measure the resistance value of your insulation. The resistance of the water will determine how much how much extra current will flow when the pump is energized. If low enough, it will in all likelyhood exceed the capacity of the breaker, typically a 240V 20 amp. Again, start with the simplest and replace the pressure switch, about $20. Go from there.

 

[OKnewguy]

Well guys, my renter is going to be gone this weekend, so I will do some investigating. I am going to check the presure switch first and then go to this reset switch thing. I will try and take a pic of the set up. It is REALY a hassle having the tank and control area in the apartment. The apartment and garage were built first and then they built the house at their leisure. The husband was really handy and did most of the work himself, but when he passed away (in the early 80's) the widow would hire stuff out. She was on a fixed income and I feel she was often taken advantage of. Since I have been here I have found numerous wiring hazards from remodel and "upgrades" she had done. The joys of buying a older home /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. I tell you though, my wife and I still are extremely happy with the place and we feel very blessed to have our dream home.
Thanks for the replies, I'll keep everyone posted.
Dave

 

[GaryQWA]

When the water stops, what do you do to get it going again?

The switch sounds like a low pressure safety cut off type used to prevent running a pump dry when the well goes 'dry' until it recovers some. The switch cover should say Auto, Off Manual or On. If it is plumbed into the water line where the other switch is, then the only way it can work is to open the contacts which would shut off the power to another switch that doesn't have the low pressure safety feature. A dumb plumbing design IMO but...

If you do nothing and then have water after a time, the nthe thermal overload in the pump motor is opening due to overheating and the water stops until the motor cools sufficiently enough for it to close and turn the pump on again. If that's the case, then you need to find and cure the cause because that ruins motors. One cause could be frequent starts of the pump due to a too small pressure tank. The tank is sized based on the drawdown gallons being enough to provide the pump to be off for at least 60 seconds before coming on again for up to a 1.5 hp motor. For 1.5 to 2 hp is a minimum of 120 seconds off.

There are other causes of overheating a submersible pump. Like low voltage, not enough water flow over the motor etc..

A pump guy or driller or a plumber capable of pulling pumps can do simple winding and cable ohms, conductivity and test for shorts to show any abnormal readings of the motor and cable etc.. Or you can go to www.franklin-electric.com to find their troubleshooting section on 4" submersible motors and do your own tests with a simple multimeter or ohmmeter. They will have all the ranges of acceptable readings there.
http://www.franklin-electric.com/Manual/AIM_13.htm

Gary Slusser

 

[anojones]

Well- I'd been sort of eyeing this thread the last couple of days until today- when it suddenly became very interesting. We have an irrigation well without a pressure tank on it- we just flip the breaker to turn it on when we need to and then turn it off when done. We haven't used it much- but I have leveled an area for a lawn and was watering it down to hit it again with a harrow today and after about 4 hours looked outside and the water had stopped. Our control box also had two reset buttons- I pressed the first one and the well started up. I think it's a thermal cut-out- so could be do to overheating pump (dropping well water, or other malfunction)- there does apear to be a wasp nest in a different control box by the pump which could have something to do with it. The cut-out switch is also mounted outside in the sun (about 100 degrees here today) and I think that that could likely be the cause as well. We were planning on hooking our lawn sprinkler system into this well- but I better figure it out first.