What class of tractor for maintaining two miles of road at higher elevation?

[paulsharvey]

Think of it like a pick-up. Is towing a 9000 lbs trailer with a Ram 1500 abuse? No, it's rated for it; pulling it all day, every day, probably time for a 3/4 ton. Will the 1/2 ton do it, sure, will it add additional wear and lead to a shorter life, sure.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

I would not consider what he is doing as abuse. However it is very high wear work and nearing the borders of the machines capabilities. He will have to replace the clutch in 1/4 to 1/3 of the time of a person doing hay or feeding cattle. The bucket will most likely need replaced before the tractor wears out. The maintenance will be significantly higher than normal ag work. The wildcard would be the loader and it might fail in a significant way before the tractor is worn out. Ag loaders are not build any where near as heavy as industrial loaders.

In regards to the video I noticed that his property had very few rocks. Rocks quickly increase the loader requirements. If he had been digging through shale or other rock with the M6060 the way he was digging through the dirt then it would have been abuse and the machine would not have done it well.

Depends on how steep the dam and road are along with what exactly needs done. You can do a lot with a loader, but slopes take considerably more skill with a geared tractor than a hydrostat. Slopes can quickly become dangerous with a geared tractor if you are not skilled with one.

As far as, is the video abuse? Nah, but it is heavy use. Buckets are a replaceable item, and if we assume this is 40 hours of the work this machine does, over a 4000 hour life, so be it. If this is going to be a 1000 hours of it's life, maybe it will be pretty used up in 1000 hours. What I saw was the tires nearly constantly slipping, which means he isn't weighted down enough, and the tires are running out of traction before he likely risks breaking anything.

I would guess, and it's just a guess, every hour of use like the video, is probably equivalent to 3-5 hours of light/medium use. But, keep in mind, it's not like pulling a chisel plow or 8 ft off set disc is a walk in the park for a machine; that's heavy loads too, and they are meant for it.

If we are talking dirt work, a tracked skid, full sized TLB, or Industrial machine are the way too go, if we are talking 6-10 hours per day, 4-6 days per week. If we are talking about 80 hours in the first year of dirt work, and then 20 hours per year of dirt work after that, something in the 45-85hp range should handle it.

Thanks for those detailed reply's! What's being said makes a lot of sense. The more you use something hard, the quicker it wears out. After reading your posts, I can put that in some sort of context with regards to realistic expectations.

Also thinking about the loader as a replaceable wear item helps too. A new loader isn't cheap, but a lot cheaper than a new tractor.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

My ranch already has a house & roads on it, so it mostly just maintenance. We do get flash floods from time to time that can wash away sections of the roads. In fact the whole road was rebuilt just before we bought it, at the cost of around $40K. One in a hundred year storm they said... The road rebuild included a lot of culverts so hopefully it will stand the test of time.

We have another mile of 4x4 dirt roads that could use some work... some small washouts and it's overgrown with sage & rabbit brush. It's not a pressing matter as we don't have to use those roads right now anyway.

The dam that needs repairing, is at the end of one of those roads. I'd have to measure to see exactly how steep, but it's a fall line two track that I'm estimating to be a 25-30 deg slope. The dam is located at the bottom of a wash (on a flat area) and the wall has washed out. It's not a big repair and it's not something that is urgent. I'd save that one till I have some serious experience with whatever tractor I end up with!

As far as rocks go, the slit/clay soil is pretty shallow in some spots (you can see the rock slab underneath where it's washed out a little). In other areas it's at least 5-6ft deep. At least that's as deep as I've gone with my handheld auger. My 200 acres are in, and on top of a 40ft tall redrock canyon. Go back in time far enough and most of the ranch would be underwater! I don't think the soil itself has too much rock in it in, but underneath there's a giant slab of rock.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

200 acres in the mountains? No problem. For snow up to 18” we have an old high hour Deere 310. It has 90 hp, 4wd, weighs a bunch, heated cab, & they are commonly for sale within your price range….. everywhere in the USA. To clear a couple of feet of snow for a mile of dirt road, just put that huge heavy FEL bucket in ‘float” and drive forward. No implement needed.
After a few yarda it is pushing a wedge of snow as wide as the road.
And it does the job without effort or wear - in comfort.

rScotty

These do look like an interesting option, but how does that go with the bucket, when you want to angle the snow off the road? Do you have to steer it into place? Can you get a plow blade for the 310 that has a third function? Does it have a locker in the rear? How do you think it would plow going up hill?

Can you attach a land plane / gravel rack / box blade to the back of one of those?

Sorry for all the questions!

 

[paulsharvey]

Thanks for those detailed reply's! What's being said makes a lot of sense. The more you use something hard, the quicker it wears out. After reading your posts, I can put that in some sort of context with regards to realistic expectations.

Also thinking about the loader as a replaceable wear item helps too. A new loader isn't cheap, but a lot cheaper than a new tractor.

Not so much the loader itself, but the bucket. You can always pick up a bucket for $1200-2000, new, used, aftermarket, ect. No, you don't want to bend/crack them, but they are replaceable.

 

[Sportsman762]

Also thinking about the loader as a replaceable wear item helps too. A new loader isn't cheap, but a lot cheaper than a new tractor.

Equipment manufactures like to make a loader only fit a few models then change the loader design. This makes replacing the complete loader after a catastrophic failure difficult. Buckets are easy to change out and not terribly priced. However its different for loaders.

These do look like an interesting option, but how does that go with the bucket, when you want to angle the snow off the road?

You can't with a normal backhoe. The snow wedges in the front and rolls off on each side. Its frustrating if your trying to clear a path wider than the bucket. If you want to push the pile off the road you drive off the road. I have pushed lots of snow with a backhoe.

Can you get a plow blade for the 310 that has a third function?

You can get them with detachable buckets and 3rd function. However they are rare and often $$. Another option is to make something that mounts on the bucket and use 3rd function or a diverter to operate it.

Does it have a locker in the rear? How do you think it would plow going up hill?

They have rear lockers as a standard feature and most the newer 4wd ones have an automatic locking front differential. They plow great up hill because they are so heavy.

Can you attach a land plane / gravel rack / box blade to the back of one of those?

You cannot attach 3pt implements to most industrial backhoes. (not sure what a gravel rack is)
You could use something like a road maintainer if you fabricated a rear hitch. They work like a land plane.

Your description of the property make me lean towards a full sized 4wd backhoe. It will handle the rock the best, can handle major wash outs, repair the dam, plow snow, etc.

 

[newbury]

Good timing (maybe).
Check with local co-ops to see if they get any (what I'll call) "off lease harvest tractors".
@ultrarunner was discussing this in another thread.
Machines about the size you need are leased for harvest and heavily discounted at the end of the harvest.
@oosik nailed what you need, or maybe a little larger.

 

[rScotty]

These do look like an interesting option, but how does that go with the bucket, when you want to angle the snow off the road? Do you have to steer it into place? Can you get a plow blade for the 310 that has a third function? Does it have a locker in the rear? How do you think it would plow going up hill?

Can you attach a land plane / gravel rack / box blade to the back of one of those?

Sorry for all the questions!

Sure. They sound like the same questions I had.

....how does that go with the bucket, when you want to angle the snow off the road.
It doesn't angle the snow off the road in one controllable direction. A commercal size TLB like the Deere 310/410 has enough power and weight that it can push a lot of snow in front of it. With the heavy bucket in float mode the snow being pushed is increasingly compacted into a wide spear ">" pointed in the directon of travel. That > shape of compacted snow that just gets longer and larger - and more dense - untl the snow begins to roll off the road on both sides. Then we just continue driving forward. The bucket is 8 feet wide, so the cleared area is wide enough for a PU. It isn't a perfect job. There is snow left behind and also compressed under the tractor tires. The job ends up beng good enough for PU access, and general feeding and ranch work.....but it would be hell on a passenger car.

There are limits on how much snow is in the spear or "> shape" being pushed. It doesn't always work the same depending on how heavy and deep the snow is. On medium snow I try to get to it when it is about 18 " deep. And the result isn't perfect. But it is good enough for ranch work. And quick

Do you have to steer it into place?
No, not unless I just get lucky. Generally just push until a turn or end of the road happens. Then reorient and start again.

Can you get a plow blade for the 310 that has a third function?
So at the reasonable user level for us TBNers the answer is somewhere between no and maybe.
We are just now beginning to see quick change implements other than a bucket. You can put a 3rd function onto anything, and there are now also Quick Attach couplers built for commercial machines. The quick couplers are more expensive and not yet common - but becoming more available.
Most commercial size are dedicated machines, not a "one tractor can do it all" so popular with utlity and homeowner tractors. Not all SSQAs are heavily enough built for that duty on a 310.

Does it have a locker in the rear? How do you think it would plow going up hill?
Yes, they all have locking rear differentials. With 90 hp, all that weight, the locker, good tires, and 4wd.... it's a beast. Even so, it plows best on the flat or slight slopes. The problem is always with slopes that lean off to one side. IMHO, those side slopes vary from dangerous to nearly impossble with any machine except a "leaner" like a road grader or 6 way blade on a Cat.
Sometimes we have to be satisfied with just making a path. It will generally do that.

Can you attach a land plane / gravel rack / box blade to the back of one of those?
Some you can. I've heard of them being ordered without the backhoe for that purpose, but don't know anything about it. That is where the dealer's "Whole Goods Catalog" for commercial fleets is handy.

Hope it helps. My last advice is if you go this way spend the premium for a real good used one. Old ones can actually be better if cared for. New, they are all just too expensive,
rScotty

 

[paulsharvey]

I really think most people expect to put 200+ hours per year on a homeowner machine. It might be 200 hrs in the first year, but it's normally sub 80 hrs per year after that. Now, our OP has additional day to day uses, beyond the dirt work, feeding hay, hauling water, maintaining his dirt bike jumps, ect. I really doubt we are talking about more than 400 hrs max, first year, and maybe 200 hrs per year afterwards.

What I'm getting at, we don't have to size the equipment for optimum speed and work efficiency. He could honestly get by with anything that weights 4000# with a loader lift capacity of 1500# and 3 point of 2500#. I assume we want anything other than R4 tires, unless the machine is Heavy. So, using Koiti as an example; he could go as small as a DK4720, on upto a RX7720. On a Massey Ferguson line, possibly get by with a 1840M, on upto a 2607H, or 2860M, or even a 4710.

I'm kinda assuming, we want to be able to move a full sized 5x6 round ball (atleast one on front and one on back), or a full IBC, 275 gal tote (2400 lbs).

Dirt work, frankly anything over 40 hp would so the work, over time, but I'd prefer 55+, and 7 ft impliments.

 

[paulsharvey]

What I'm getting at, I think almost everyone on here, whole forum, tries to give good advice; BUT we are quick to spend Your money. If you told us you had $375k, we'd line you up with a Cat-297 skid steer, a Cat-307 large mini hoe, and a 8 ton International Dump body with a plow; and we still would need a chore tractor....