What diesel trucks to avoid

[jcmseven]

RayCo,

I have not posted on this forum for a while, but my two cents here is to really think hard about getting a diesel. I have a 6.4L Ford and really like it, but I cannot justify, nor can any of us much, having based on economics alone. With the prices of diesel and the new emissions diesels, the top gas engines and diesels are a financial wash. Although the diesels will most likely last longer, I still drive my father's 200,000 plus mile 5.4L 150 regularly and have a neighbor with similar luck on a 6.8L V10, so real world longevity is reasonably well matched. In the older diesels, the Cummins engines are excellent as are the Duramax's aside from the earlier runs. I had a 7.3L Ford which I sold that also did well. None of these motors even pre-emissions would offer enough improvement in mileage to offset the price of fuel--including service, etc. Before jumping into the diesel world either new or used you might wish to compare the gasoline versions from each maker and see what the difference in price and operational cost would be. For me personally, I enjoy a diesel and am willing to pay some extra in initial cost and maintenence (and now fuel) to own one but that philosophy is not suited to all. As one of my friends who sells GMC's said, "get the diesel if you intend to work it like a piece of construction equipment, otherwise go gas." Although I did not listen to him, I feel his statement is probably accurate.

John M

 

[Builder]

I would avoid brand loyalty altogether and buy the truck that's closest to your list of needs and price as possible. All these trucks can hang real well and each has its' own set of advantages.

Just buy the best value you can find and get it running in top notch shape and you'll be happy.

 

[Rara Avis]

I would avoid brand loyalty altogether and buy the truck that's closest to your list of needs and price as possible. All these trucks can hang real well and each has its' own set of advantages.

Just buy the best value you can find and get it running in top notch shape and you'll be happy.

Makes sense to me...

 

[Ryan03]

GM's Duramax LB7 engine in 2001 - 2004.5 year models....run away... Injector problems far outweigh the benefit of an inexpensive buy or the poor-attempt by GM to anty up a 7 year / 200,000 mile warranty No offense taken, I however have to disagree with you on the blanket statement of 2001 to 2004.5 however. Most lb07 injector problems are had with the 01 and 02 engines, most 03`s had an updated design injector that adressed many of the earlier injector issues. If problems do arise with the injectors in an lb07 engine, Gm will replace all 8, regardless of how many are bad and pick up the bill up to 200k or 7 years. Many fear the lb07 because the injectors are not easily serviced, [valve covers and return lines must be removed , special injector tools etc.] This was adressed in 04 with the lly, its injectors can be removed with the valve covers on. Some LLy`s had injector harness defects which would cause hard to diagnose driveability issues, but once isolated is a pretty easy fix. I also feel it is worth noting that the Duramax and the common rail Dodge Cummins engines 5.9 and 6.7, use the same basic design Bosch common rail fuel injection system, and both have had some reported injector issues, which most times can be traced to particle contamination , fuel quality issues, or use of aftermarket software to increase horsepower, which among other things cranks the rail pressure through the roof. I have replaced both 5.9 cummins common rail injectors , and also 1 set of Duramax injectors, both failed because owner induced situations, [double stacked chips on one and poor vegie oil blend in the other]
For the record, I feel that both the duramax and the cummins are great engines, and though I own a duramax, I still favor the Cummins a little, but like the features of the GM truck more than the dodge, so its a toss up. Bottom line, you will not have to look far to find somebody with bad experiences with one product or another, They mass produce these things and every now and again the factory sh!%$ out a turd, Most recent diesels all have some common problems , most can be overcome. Even my personal least favorite, the 6.0 psd [ARP head stud kit, fass fuel filter setup] 94 and up 6.5 chev. [kennedy diesel fmu module and fmu heatsink]. 98 to 02[I think] 24 valve cummins vp 44 inj pump [Fass fuel filter/PV pump setup, fuel supply pressure gauge in cab] 7.3 psd coolant cavatation issues involving front cover and cylinder wall corosion[ removing green antifreez and using amber dexcool or ursa coolant and regularly checking ph levels in coolant, cam sensors, carry one with you]. Common rail cummins and duramax, Fass fuel filter setup, and religious fuel filter maintence and common sense programmer use. After trying to edit this 4 times, I give up, I cannot get the quote to seperate from my post, sorry.

 

[neucam]

Quite a topic with lots of advise, my two cents with the price of diesel these days , a diesel pickup does not have the advantage it used to unless you are allways hauling a load or a trailer. Just stick with a smaller gas engine that could pull a load ocassionally. You would be happier.

 

[RayCo]

Quite a topic with lots of advise, my two cents with the price of diesel these days , a diesel pickup does not have the advantage it used to unless you are allways hauling a load or a trailer. Just stick with a smaller gas engine that could pull a load ocassionally. You would be happier.

Definitely lots of good feedback. Much appreciated too. I figure that if I get the same mileage with a diesel, it'll cost me an extra $21/week or so. That's not negligible, and would be about $1000/year. But, at the same time, if the diesel lasts me twice as long as a gas truck would have, I'll probably come out ahead. Also, I believe that the prices of gas and diesel will flip-flop, and we'll find diesel is suddenly much cheaper (less expensive, rather) than gas. I definitely wouldn't want to buy a diesel then.
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[Builder]

Definitely lots of good feedback. Much appreciated too. I figure that if I get the same mileage with a diesel, it'll cost me an extra $21/week or so. That's not negligible, and would be about $1000/year. But, at the same time, if the diesel lasts me twice as long as a gas truck would have, I'll probably come out ahead. Also, I believe that the prices of gas and diesel will flip-flop, and we'll find diesel is suddenly much cheaper (less expensive, rather) than gas. I definitely wouldn't want to buy a diesel then.
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The other couple things to keep in mind are:

1. When buying used as in your case, a diesel engine will less likely be ready for rebuilding than a diesel since they generally run 2-3 times longer before rebuilds
2. A diesel truck averages $5,000 higher in resale value once the odometer hits the all important 100,000 mile mark.
3. It appears that the oil bubble may have burst and we may be paying less for diesel fuel than we were this spring.

 

[jcmseven]

My point is the diesel may last twice or more as long, but will you keep the truck that long? I suppose that is the question. I think I drive a lot, and still put less than 30,000 miles a year on average on my truck. Most diesel trucks traded in my locale have less than 100,000 miles on them at the time of trade. This applies to each brand and, according to my buds at the dealerships, has not greatly changed over the past few years. I suspect this will become even more likely with the fuel costs being high, although I do feel they will come down. The resale value here simply does not favor the diesel, and the numbers do not add up. As I mentioned before, my opinion is to buy what one wants and can afford. In my case, it was a diesel, but this does not apply to all. My counsel has recently been to seriously think about getting an equivalent gas engine UNLESS the amount towed truly necessitates a diesel or one is planning to keep the truck for many, many miles (or if one just has to have one--which counts for something).

John M

 

[RayCo]

My point is the diesel may last twice or more as long, but will you keep the truck that long? ... My counsel has recently been to seriously think about getting an equivalent gas engine UNLESS the amount towed truly necessitates a diesel or one is planning to keep the truck for many, many miles

Hmmm. I've gone through about 25 vehicles in my 17 years of driving. My track record doesn't really lead me to believe I'd keep a truck for hundreds of thousands of miles. Good point here John. Thanks.

 

[john_bud]

The other couple things to keep in mind are:

1. When buying used as in your case, a diesel engine will less likely be ready for rebuilding than a diesel since they generally run 2-3 times longer before rebuilds
2. A diesel truck averages $5,000 higher in resale value once the odometer hits the all important 100,000 mile mark.
3. It appears that the oil bubble may have burst and we may be paying less for diesel fuel than we were this spring.

#1 used to be true, but I have doubts about it still holding true today.

The common rail injection systems have bugs. Common to all. They are also $$$ to repair. The smog stuff they put on is way expensive and fragile. While the engine may go 350k, the injection and smog stuff will probably be dead several times over before then. Even gas trucks from 15 years ago are going 200k without major issues. 5-7 year old trucks should be good for 250-350k. I know there are a few of the 5.3l chevy trucks around here with 300k+ and nothing but scheduled maint done. Over the course of the trucks life, the gas trucks are cheaper to own. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to fuel, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to repair and depreciation is about the same percentage, but less real dollars. That does change for guys that actually tow 10-15k most of the time.

 

[WilliamBos]

#1 used to be true, but I have doubts about it still holding true today.

The common rail injection systems have bugs. Common to all. They are also $$$ to repair. The smog stuff they put on is way expensive and fragile. While the engine may go 350k, the injection and smog stuff will probably be dead several times over before then. Even gas trucks from 15 years ago are going 200k without major issues. 5-7 year old trucks should be good for 250-350k. I know there are a few of the 5.3l chevy trucks around here with 300k+ and nothing but scheduled maint done. Over the course of the trucks life, the gas trucks are cheaper to own. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to fuel, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to repair and depreciation is about the same percentage, but less real dollars. That does change for guys that actually tow 10-15k most of the time.

How can gassers be cheaper to fuel when they use more gas?? And how can maintenance be cheaper when only one of them uses spark plugs, and plug wires??

 

[jcmseven]

This is easy. Currently with the cost of fuel and the scheduled maintenence the newer diesels require, the cost savings of owning one just is not there. My old 7.3L PSD would cost more to maintain now than would a V10 and my current 6.4L PSD would definitely cost more. The value on diesels is not as great as it used to be, and although they still bring more money on trade (on average) the difference just is not great. I own a diesel with which I am happy, but for those dipping their toes in potentially buying one, I make sure I mention to them NOT to do it for some hope of great savings. There is some magic feeling one gets when pulling a big load up a hill in overdrive in a pickup, but for some that might not be worth the additional money. The spark plugs, for example, in my dad's old 5.4L gasser, which I still drive, have been replaced twice, and it has well over 200K miles on it, and just think of all those times one did not have to put 15 quarts of oil in or change a fuel filter at 15K.

John M

 

[Dargo]

The spark plugs, for example, in my dad's old 5.4L gasser, which I still drive, have been replaced twice, and it has well over 200K miles on it,

John M

Yeow!! You do know that going much over 30k before changing spark plugs on any Ford modular engine is extremely risky, don't you? Just go to Google and type in "Ford spark plug" and see what you get. I have a 6.8 V10 and I have noticed that the plugs gets dangerously tight if I go much over 25k miles between changing them, and I use plenty of anti-seize on them! The odds of having a plug corrode in and stripping out the spark plug threads in the head are about 50/50 if you go much over 60k between changes. Just look at the thousands of heli-coil and other fixes sold for the Ford modular engines.

 

[WilliamBos]

Yeow!! You do know that going much over 30k before changing spark plugs on any Ford modular engine is extremely risky, don't you? Just go to Google and type in "Ford spark plug" and see what you get. I have a 6.8 V10 and I have noticed that the plugs gets dangerously tight if I go much over 25k miles between changing them, and I use plenty of anti-seize on them! The odds of having a plug corrode in and stripping out the spark plug threads in the head are about 50/50 if you go much over 60k between changes. Just look at the thousands of heli-coil and other fixes sold for the Ford modular engines.

And compare the price of plugs to the damage that can happen.... Ouch!!

 

[jcmseven]

Dargo,

Yes I do know this. My dad, from whom I inherited the truck (I have posted on this inheritance before) did not. He also changed the oil about every 30,000 miles and had never put an air filter in it. I have owned the truck for about 20,000 miles so far and you can be assured that I am back on schedule with it. I suppose that was one point of my post, more that these engines, even when maintained to a level below what you or I would consider sane still hold up quite well and are fairly economical.

John M