What do you think of this stick welder?
- Thread starter Haywire
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LD1
Epic Contributor
I still stand by my recomendation of the 6013 rod. But If/when you get the welder, go to TSC or where ever and pick up a pound of 6011, 6013, and 7014 and TRY each for yourself.
IF you get an AC machine, you CANNOT use the 6010 rod. It is DC only. BUT 6011 is the AC equivellent pretty much.
6010/6011 are both HOT rods with LOW deposition rate. That means they burn in deep and dont deposit much filler. It isnt hard to burn clear through 1/4" metal on only 100A. But 6013/7014 it is almost impossible.
Also, due to the low depsoition rate, fit is alot more critical. Peices must fit tight together. No rough torched ends with gaps here and there. Wont weld good at all.
6013/7014 are very similar. (in case you didnt know, the first two #'s indicate the tensil strength of the weld. 60= 60,000psi....70=70,000psi). But both of these rods are easy to weld and "contact" type rods. They have a higher fill rate, which doesnt mean as much penetration, but they can also fill larger voids and cracks much easier, like using a torch to cut ends instead of a bandsaw. They are also much easier to start/re-start.
7018 I'd stay away from for a home "hobbiest". First of all, proper storage is everything. (oven to keep em warm and dry). And 7018 is a DC rod as well. You can get 7018AC, but it doesnt weld as well as 7018DC on a DC machine. And again, the storage. Also, with 7018, when you stop a weld, the end glasses over. You have to take the electrode out of the stinger, and drag the tip across the bench a few times to break the "glass" just to be able to re-start. A real PITA for just a hobbiest.
Again, my best advice is to get a little of 6011, 6013, AND 7014 and try em all for yourself. Personally, at home, My "GO-TO" rod of choice is always 7014.
IF you get an AC machine, you CANNOT use the 6010 rod. It is DC only. BUT 6011 is the AC equivellent pretty much.
6010/6011 are both HOT rods with LOW deposition rate. That means they burn in deep and dont deposit much filler. It isnt hard to burn clear through 1/4" metal on only 100A. But 6013/7014 it is almost impossible.
Also, due to the low depsoition rate, fit is alot more critical. Peices must fit tight together. No rough torched ends with gaps here and there. Wont weld good at all.
6013/7014 are very similar. (in case you didnt know, the first two #'s indicate the tensil strength of the weld. 60= 60,000psi....70=70,000psi). But both of these rods are easy to weld and "contact" type rods. They have a higher fill rate, which doesnt mean as much penetration, but they can also fill larger voids and cracks much easier, like using a torch to cut ends instead of a bandsaw. They are also much easier to start/re-start.
7018 I'd stay away from for a home "hobbiest". First of all, proper storage is everything. (oven to keep em warm and dry). And 7018 is a DC rod as well. You can get 7018AC, but it doesnt weld as well as 7018DC on a DC machine. And again, the storage. Also, with 7018, when you stop a weld, the end glasses over. You have to take the electrode out of the stinger, and drag the tip across the bench a few times to break the "glass" just to be able to re-start. A real PITA for just a hobbiest.
Again, my best advice is to get a little of 6011, 6013, AND 7014 and try em all for yourself. Personally, at home, My "GO-TO" rod of choice is always 7014.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
7018 I'd stay away from for a home "hobbiest". First of all, proper storage is everything. (oven to keep em warm and dry). And 7018 is a DC rod as well. You can get 7018AC, but it doesnt weld as well as 7018DC on a DC machine. And again, the storage. Also, with 7018, when you stop a weld, the end glasses over. You have to take the electrode out of the stinger, and drag the tip across the bench a few times to break the "glass" just to be able to re-start. A real PITA for just a hobbiest.
Now I am not trying to start anything here, but I do disagree a bit with this. Yes the 7018 forms a covering over the end when you stop the arc, and must be broken off some way, but it is not a big deal, (at least to me). What I have started doing is just "pinch" it off with thumb and forefinger and re-strike it. I do not take the electrode out of the stinger, and it only takes about 1 second to do this. Or you can use a rough file to drag it across a couple of times. 7018 makes great beautiful welds with pretty good penetration. I do not use an oven. Yes I know there will be hydrogen bubbles in the weld, but not too many. Overall I am very pleased with 7018 on my Everlast PA160, usually run in the range from 75 to 85 amps. I do use the 6011 for root pass in thick material, and then cap it with 7018.
I do use some 6013 for thin material where deep penetration would be detrimental. So I would actually recommend 7018, after you go thru the 6013 or 7014 drag rod phase of learning how to hold an arc and watch the puddle. But I will say this, if you want better looking beads, faster with less learning curve, get a DC machine of some kind. Oh and while I am not recommending against the PA 200, or any larger DC machine, I have never needed more than my PA160 has. I guess everyone has an opinion, and now you have heard mine. Thanks.
James K0UA
Now I am not trying to start anything here, but I do disagree a bit with this. Yes the 7018 forms a covering over the end when you stop the arc, and must be broken off some way, but it is not a big deal, (at least to me). What I have started doing is just "pinch" it off with thumb and forefinger and re-strike it. I do not take the electrode out of the stinger, and it only takes about 1 second to do this. Or you can use a rough file to drag it across a couple of times. 7018 makes great beautiful welds with pretty good penetration. I do not use an oven. Yes I know there will be hydrogen bubbles in the weld, but not too many. Overall I am very pleased with 7018 on my Everlast PA160, usually run in the range from 75 to 85 amps. I do use the 6011 for root pass in thick material, and then cap it with 7018.
I do use some 6013 for thin material where deep penetration would be detrimental. So I would actually recommend 7018, after you go thru the 6013 or 7014 drag rod phase of learning how to hold an arc and watch the puddle. But I will say this, if you want better looking beads, faster with less learning curve, get a DC machine of some kind. Oh and while I am not recommending against the PA 200, or any larger DC machine, I have never needed more than my PA160 has. I guess everyone has an opinion, and now you have heard mine. Thanks.
James K0UA
LD1
Epic Contributor
You are correct that it really isnt a big deal. But I thought I'd mention it because if no one did, he'd be cursing it trying to get it to restart.
And then theres the lack of having a rod oven as you mentioned. A 7014 weld will hold just as good as a 7018 IMO if welded properly. And the 7014 is easier to run with. PLUS he mentioned getting an AC unit, so my comments are directed more toward a NON DC machine.
And again, IMO, 7014 will do just as well as 7018 for the home welder. So why run a more difficult rod. I like taking the easiest route to get the desired results. And IMO, 7014 is the easier route. If I have a weld fail that was welded with 7014, there's a 99% chance that it would have also failed using 7018.
LD1
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Gary Fowler
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I too had a Lincoln 225 AC machine on the farm when I grew up. Built 2 ea 40 foot long cotton hauling trailers with that machine and a Victor torch using 6010 and 7018 DC rods on that AC machine. Talk about hard to hold an arc, but they did produce sound welds. Those trailers are still around today hauling cotton to the gin. I did have a fair amount of experience welding with DC prior to using the old cracker box, but they will do a fair job if your welding skills are good. DC is more forgiving to the beginner as it is much easier to hold a steady arc with it as you can get close or long arc the rod and it will keep burning with DC, not so with AC. You get to close and it will freeze on you. They can do just about whatever is needed at the home level. As for 7018 storage, I keep my 7018 sealed in the original air tight seal till I need them and afterward, I just keep them dry in a rod storage box with a heat lamp that stays burned out about as much as it stays on. They weld pretty good without a hot rod box. If I am concerned with moisture, I just stick the rod for a few seconds till I see the steam boil off and then start welding with it. As long as you dont keep them exposed to moisture so long that the steel wire in them rusts under the flux, they will work plenty well for home use. For most uses, we dont have to worry about underbead cracking from hydrogen embrittlement. If I was welding on a pressure vessel or pressure piping, heck yeah, those rods would never see ambient temps, but for my farm use, no problem. If it breaks off from hydrogen embrittlement, I will just weld it again. SO far none of my welds have ever failed including those on those trailers that I built about 40 years ago. The hot box I used then was an old refrigerator with a 60 watt light bulb. I kept my 6010 / 7018 and whatever else I had in the same box.
dcyrilc
Super Member
I'm right there with you as I bought the hammer, gloves, and magnetic doohickeys last week. The auto darkening helmet is next week, and I think it will be an I-Mig 200 in a few weeks after that.:thumbsup:
I think my first attempt at a project will be a welding table.
I think I'll be burning a bunch of rod attempting to lay beads on some scrap steel I have around till I get to where I think I can weld something that will hold up. Maybe I'll catch on fairly quickly.
I'm going to try to find some 6010 and 6013 to begin with.
I'll have to rig an adapter extension cord before I can use it. The 220 plug I have out in the barn is for my wife's pottery kiln. It's a bit bigger than a standard dryer plug.
Ian
I'm going to try to find some 6010 and 6013 to begin with.
I'll have to rig an adapter extension cord before I can use it. The 220 plug I have out in the barn is for my wife's pottery kiln. It's a bit bigger than a standard dryer plug.
Ian
LD1
Epic Contributor
6010 around here can only be had at a welding supply store.
TSC and NAPA both only carry 6011, 6013, 7014, and 7018AC.
But again, that may just be around here
There's a Scott-Gross welding supply in town, but the last time I was in there, they mostly catered to oxy-acetylene and mig users. Maybe they'll have some. If not, I'll look around or maybe order online. I read a comment on a welding site that one guy looking for 6010 was told that it was just for pipe fitters and they only had it in 50lb boxes.
Ian
Ian
moored4
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Can you do that with out those little swrilies in it!!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: nice
Shield Arc
Super Member
3/32 6010 or 6011 has it's place, but with you just starting out I wonder if you might have a hard time seeing what's going on. Might even be hard with 1/8, (for now) I wonder if you pickup a few pounds of 5/32 if it would help you to see the very sought after "stack of dimes" look?
Attachments
6013 & 7014 are easy rods to use with AC or DC and have proved suitable in a great many applications.
Have not found 7016s easy to use even with a good DC welder.
Did one job with 7018s, from memory they were better to use than a 7016, was using them with a 400 amp Lincoln. (4 cylinder Perkins engine).
Have not found 7016s easy to use even with a good DC welder.
Did one job with 7018s, from memory they were better to use than a 7016, was using them with a 400 amp Lincoln. (4 cylinder Perkins engine).
Can you still buy the correct carbon rods for these?
I was afraid that 5/32 rod might need too many amps for the metal I have to play with. If that's not a problem, I'll have another look.
Are you guys finding 6010 to be more expensive than 6011? Tractor Supply could order it, but for $7 more for 5lb than the rest of the common stuff. $20+ per box.
I've read that 6011 doesn't work as well with DC as it does with AC, something different in the flux. Is the difference enough to hinder me learning on it or does it make sense to put out the effort to find the 6010?
thanks,
Ian
rankrank1
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Yes and No.
The preferred version of carbon rods for Twin Carbon Arc are no longer made in the US, but do appear on Ebay all the time although I have never purchased any (Note: They are sometimes are even advertised as movie projector rods and usually come from Austria or Germany. FYI: Old cinema projectors or WWII era anti-aircraft search lights used similar technology principles). I hear this preferred rod version works best in a Twin Carbon Arc torch but have never personally tried them.
I simply use the Copper cladded carbon rods that are made for Carbon gouging like used in an ArcAir type gouging torch for crude cutting. Although I have have heard that these rods do not work as well as the preferred rods, they are the only type that I have ever used and do seem to work okay for my needs. This type is readily available anywhere in the US. At $9 to $12 a box of 50 rods, they are very affordable and last a long time. I usually get careless and actually break a rod before I ever fully consume it, but have learned to be more careful so no longer a problem. Rods are available in different diameters, but I would not go much bigger than 1/4" (might be okay with 5/16") for an average AC buzzbox. Now if you have an old Lincoln Idealarc or Miller Dialarc which is much more welder than a buzzbox then you can possibly go even bigger rods. I usually use 1/4" rods. I have not expmeriented alot, but flame shape can be altered by changing rod approachment angles.
Twin Carbon arc is not for everyone, but for an occasional user like me it is as close as I will ever get to a free lunch. I actually have an old oxy/acetlyne rig that I mothballed several years ago. I simply got tired of the expensive lease on bottles, buying the expensive gas (Acetylene just increased another 40% by the way due to the shortage), or always running out on the weekend when everyplace is closed for refills. If you purchase bottles, the places near me would not fill them so I ruled that out. This selective filling by suppliers seems to have let up some since TSC recently started carrying bottles and gas. That all said, an oxy/acet rig can be very expensive to own. Definitely worth it if you use it a lot, but not worth it to the occasional backyard hobbyist like me.
if you go to any big box store that sells the minimum of welding supplies, you'll find 1/8" 6011 and 7018. that should tell you something. it doesn't mean that they are always the best choice for any given application, but they are certainly the most common. i grew up around a farm, and it was always an old ac only welder, and an old box of 6011 rods. the very non-technical reason (from an old timer) was that 6011 will weld steel through a quarter of an inch of cow****. it's pretty true really. it will strike and maintain an arc on all manners of rusty and coated metals easier than most any other rod.
you can do perfectly acceptable repairs and fabrication with them, though another rod (and/or dc welder) may allow a skilled operator to produce a more aesthetically pleasing weld. i've used 6011 on dc and it works fine. i think the best thing you can do is to try a box of each of a few types and see what you you like best for the work you do. rod and polarity choices will not make you a better welder instantly. if you have trouble making a good weld with 6011 on ac, then you won't magically make a good weld with a different rod on dc. it's the technique you pick up along the way that will allow you to make the good welds. certainly, once you have some practice, you will probably find that dc is slightly easier to work with.
