What does power-beyond really mean?

[Aguanga]

RonMar is exactly right. I have frequently seen photos and examples of loaders, which are hooked up incorrectly, even on dealer installs. If you have a FEL installed on your tractor, have an open center system and you have a 3 pt hitch, then you almost always should be using the PB port of the loader valve for the the 3 pt. (The exception could be if you are using the PB port of the 3 pt to operate the loader valve.

If your tractor is OC, with FEL and 3pt, AND the FEL valve has 6 lines to it then it is NOT using the PB port to power the 3pt (or any other valve down stream). If it has 7 lines then it is using a PB to power the 3pt or other valve. [4 lines for cylinder actuation, 1 line in from pump, 1 line out to sump, and 1 line out to power additional valves.

If your FEL does not have 7 lines and your OC system powers the 3pt after the FEL then you too are risking the warm oil on the right toe.

Mike

I've been following the site for quite a while now trying to get a better understanding of the hydraulics on my tractor and how I could effectively add top-n-tilt capabilities. Mike, you seem to confirm what I was thinking that I need to do with my MF GC2300 (maybe others familiar with my machine could confirm this). (Awesome rollover box blade build by the way!) I have three lines going to/from my joystick valve that operates the FEL (four others for cylinders). One should be from pump, one for the sump return, and the third being the power beyond (which I'm assuming from this post to be operating my 3 point). I had always wondered if that third line was power beyond, but I couldn't figure out why it was installed... I guess I always just assumed that the 3 point was powered by the pump with plumbing internal to rear end. If I connect the power beyond from my FEL to the inlet of a new joystick or two spool valve (for TNT) I will need to make sure that I have power beyond on the new valve to properly operate the 3 point right? The power beyond on the new valve would plumb to where the power beyond from the FEL now goes (3 point) correct? Can I just tee or tap into the sump return line from the FEL with the new sump return line from the new TNT valve? Thanks in advance for the help once again!

 

[3RRL]

If I connect the power beyond from my FEL to the inlet of a new joystick or two spool valve (for TNT) I will need to make sure that I have power beyond on the new valve to properly operate the 3 point right? The power beyond on the new valve would plumb to where the power beyond from the FEL now goes (3 point) correct? Can I just tee or tap into the sump return line from the FEL with the new sump return line from the new TNT valve? Thanks in advance for the help once again!

Yes, everything you said is exactly correct.

Using power beyond is the best and correct way to feed other valves in the loop. Like I said in my post above, I've seen it done without using power beyond but it is not advisable nor correct for the reasons Ron stated in his posts. I have a Chinese loader valve that is plumbed that way and I'm switching it so I can have a PB port to feed the other valves in the loop.

 

[RonMar]

If I connect the power beyond from my FEL to the inlet of a new joystick or two spool valve (for TNT) I will need to make sure that I have power beyond on the new valve to properly operate the 3 point right?

Correct.

The power beyond on the new valve would plumb to where the power beyond from the FEL now goes (3 point) correct?

correct.

Can I just tee or tap into the sump return line from the FEL with the new sump return line from the new TNT valve? Thanks in advance for the help once again!

And again correct. Sounds like you have a handle on the situation...

 

[3RRL]

Looks like Ron and I responded at the same time but I beat him by 1 minute.

 

[MJPetersen]

They already said it, but if you need further confirmation--You are correct in your thinking and plan! That is the proper way to do it. And thanks for the compliment.

Mike

 

[CalTrac]

3-12-08, Hi all, I've read the thread about "power-beyond" valves and still am not seeing how to plumb one extra control valve and necessary lines onto my Kioti 3054 so that I can power a front brush grapple and still use the present six way control valve on the FEL. I want to tap into the distribution valve that some dealers are calling the PB valve and then into the extra control valve to control this grapple yet leave my six way FEL valve still usable. I will then have both control valves next to each other that I can operate seperatally. Bucket valve to raise and lower/tilt the grapple and the extra valve to power the clamp of the grapple. I feel that this is the cheapest way to have control of the hyd cyl on the grapple, and still have the FEL valve doing the tilt and up and down of the grapple. When I take the grapple off I'll then have the FEL 6-way to control the bucket as before. But I don't know what parts to purchase to get there. I need someone to spell it out to me. I've tried the local hyd. shops but they want me to spell it out to them. The dealers: I'm not so sure know. One dealer would make up six sections of hose and some fitting and include a $170 single spool valve for $350 total. That is pretty expensive to my thinking. When I asked how to hook it up I was told that "I would be able to tell when I saw the hoses and could the figure it out." I asked for a simple sketch and they told me that they would have to add a half hour labor to the order to produce an engeering drawing and send it along with the order. I suspect they are thinking that I'm trying to get free advice or they just don't know either. Any help from you experts is welcome. Please don't suggest to go back to the grapple supplier, I already did that with a lot of "each tractor is different" no help answer. Thanks again

 

[3RRL]

Hi CalTrac and welcome to TBN.
I suggest you start a new thread to get better exposure and answers to your question. A lot more people will see it then. Also, you might want to check to be sure about your fel valve being a 6 way valve. Most are (2 spool) 4 way ... up, down, curl, and dump. Does yours do more than that?

 

[RonMar]

CalTrac
Your current valve should have 7 hoses on it. one high pressure input, one high pressure output(PB) and one low pressure return line that goes to the resovoir, and 4 working lines that run to the lift and curl cylinders on the loader. If you had an open center single spool valve with PB, it would have 5 lines to it. Two would be the working lines to the grappel or whatever cylinder you wish to control. The other three would be the same as the first three I listed above for your 2 spool loader valve.

To add this additional single spool valve you would do the following:
1. At the loader valve disconnect the high pressure outlet line and move/re-connect it to the high pressure outlet port(PB) on the new single spool valve.
2. At the loader valve disconnect the low pressure return line and add a "T" into the line where it exits the loader valve.
3. Buy a new HP line that can run from the loader valve HP(PB) outlet to the new single spool HP inlet.
4. Buy a new line that can run from the low pressure outlet on the new single spool valve to the "T" added in step 2.
5. Buy and install whatever combination of lines and quick connects that will run from the new single spool valves working ports to the grapple cylinder, and allow proper movement and the ability to easily change buckets.

So for parts I have:
1EA PB capable open center single spool control valve
1EA HP line with proper fittings to fit loader valve PB outlet to new valve HP inlet.
1EA line to fit new valve return port to "T" on loader valve return port
1EA "T" fitting to fit/interface loader valve, existing return line, and new return line from new single spool valve.

It would be easest if the new valve has the same port type/size as the loader valve. If I knew the port sizes and hose lengths, I could probably point you to the parts at Surplus Center.

Another option that might be a little neater would be to replace your existing 2 spool valve with a 3 spool valve. This is the route I took in adding my grapple circuit, and is probably the simplest way of doing this.

Another way would be to add a solenoid controlled valve into the plumbing similar to what I described above. You would use an electrical switch to open and close the grapple.

Yet another way would be to add a solenoid controlled diverter valve onto the working ports of your existing valve. Switch one way, the spools control the loader and bucket like normal. Switched the other way, one of the loader spools controls the grapple.

You might get more responses if you start a new thread with this issue/question and include some detailed pics of your current valve installation.

 

[dvan1966]

If I want to add more hydraulics, and my valve for my FEL does not have a PB port, I could get a new valve with a PB port and go through the new one first and run my FEL valve off the PB port of the new valve?

 

[RonMar]

If I want to add more hydraulics, and my valve for my FEL does not have a PB port, I could get a new valve with a PB port and go through the new one first and run my FEL valve off the PB port of the new valve?

Yes, that should work, as long as you provide a low/no pressure return line from the new valve to the reservoir.