Code54
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What is latest opinion/position on BX series slow braking (is it an issue or not)?
- Thread starter mshumack
- Start date
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AxleHub
Elite Member
Clarifying the issues part 1:
There are several issues that involve the free rolling on Kubota BX product. But too often I see commentary posted that is neither clear or specific and it gives readers either confused or poor insight IMO. So I'm trying tp specify for your consideration:
1. 1st an opinion. Free rolling with an hst in my mind goes anywhere from inconvenient to downright absolutely dangerous . . and that range HAS NOTHING to do with veteran versus rookie or inexperienced new owners. The idea that a new owner "won't notice the problem" is a very poor opinion and masks the safety concerns. Our job as posters is not to try to save Kubota's reputation by hiding real concerns that may exist. Also . . HST exists on mowers as well as tractors . . so the assumption that new tractor owners don't know HST characteristics is not logical or reasonable.
2. The primary target of the free rolling commentary is the BX25D-1. So if you have a bx25d . . your input is not helpful unless you clarify the point. Also I haven't read much input on the BX2370-1 or BX2670-1 or BX1870-1 . . so again we don't know as yet if those have the same issues and concerns. Again . . If you have one of these models . . let us know what you experience based on issues I'll list in a part 2 post. Finally, it is easily possible to buy a new BX and yet it is not a -1. How? Because some dealers still may have had prior unsold stock in 2015. AGAIN 70 -1 models is the topic issue. If you have models that are NOT 70-1 the issue does not exist so don't tell us yours doesn't do it . . we already are fully aware of that . . Just the 70-1 models please.
Now I'll post a part 2 with the actual concerns a bit later.
End of part 1
There are several issues that involve the free rolling on Kubota BX product. But too often I see commentary posted that is neither clear or specific and it gives readers either confused or poor insight IMO. So I'm trying tp specify for your consideration:
1. 1st an opinion. Free rolling with an hst in my mind goes anywhere from inconvenient to downright absolutely dangerous . . and that range HAS NOTHING to do with veteran versus rookie or inexperienced new owners. The idea that a new owner "won't notice the problem" is a very poor opinion and masks the safety concerns. Our job as posters is not to try to save Kubota's reputation by hiding real concerns that may exist. Also . . HST exists on mowers as well as tractors . . so the assumption that new tractor owners don't know HST characteristics is not logical or reasonable.
2. The primary target of the free rolling commentary is the BX25D-1. So if you have a bx25d . . your input is not helpful unless you clarify the point. Also I haven't read much input on the BX2370-1 or BX2670-1 or BX1870-1 . . so again we don't know as yet if those have the same issues and concerns. Again . . If you have one of these models . . let us know what you experience based on issues I'll list in a part 2 post. Finally, it is easily possible to buy a new BX and yet it is not a -1. How? Because some dealers still may have had prior unsold stock in 2015. AGAIN 70 -1 models is the topic issue. If you have models that are NOT 70-1 the issue does not exist so don't tell us yours doesn't do it . . we already are fully aware of that . . Just the 70-1 models please.
Now I'll post a part 2 with the actual concerns a bit later.
End of part 1
s219
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Congratulations, I think you made a good choice!
AxleHub
Elite Member
In my part 1 I described the need to clarify this set of issues because this condition can be a much more significant one than some want to admit relating to the BXxx70-1 model or models.
A. If you have flat land for mowing or tilling or dirt work, and your purposes don't require fork lifting or cliffs or drop offs etc. then having a free coasting HST is inconvenient but likely not dangerous. The reason for this is you still have a functioning and capable brake and not a need for precision positooning and braking.
B. But if you are using a fork lift or working with trenching or around markers and vehicles and stakes and structural objects . . it is more than just inconvenient. A brake stops you but not with the same inching and accurate control that a fully functioning HST does. Some say you tap the reverse pedal to get the HST to cooperate. I'm sorry but that is not reasonable. Pressing the reverse can easily create a lack of control or lurch if you are fork lifting something or near a vehicle or structure or tree branch. A sudden reverse from forward motion is also hard on the actual tractor system. And of course nobody spends 15k to 20k to be limited in their choices anf efforts.
C. But by far one of the largest growing groups of scut users are for those on urban, suburban, and rural residential locations that often contain 5 to 20 degree slopes on lawns, lots, woods, and driveways (all kubota approved angles to 20 degrees). And hst coasting on these areas as well as cliff or culvert or drop off edges are far more toward dangerous than they are just "inconvenient" as some claim. After all . . You bought an hst . . Not a gear drive. A brake is not nearly as convenient as a fully working hst gor sevetsl readons and purposes.
D. Lets get something clear. All three above listed items are based on a not preferred situation in multiple ways . . but all three absolutely depend on a fully working brake when the hst is not operating as it has for a dozen years prior or how it works on other brands or enem on 1500 dollar lawn mowers. But there are many times where brakes can not be fully functional when it comes to slippery conditions or on slopes. Again . . lets remember that dynamic braking is far preferred over physical/mechanical braking in accuracy and directional control.
D1. Braking on a tractor is controlled by the rear wheels . . Not the front wheels. Meanwhile dynamic braking is influenced by 2wd (rear wheels) or by 4wd (rear and front wheels). So if you go down a slope (lawn, hill, driveway, or slippery/icy slope) . . dynamic braking in 4wd is a HUGE advantage over brake use for both speed AND directional control.
D2. Add to this the idea that Kubota advertises that the fel can remain in place while mowing lawns. So when you go down a slope your rear end has less influence than the front end (regardless of rear weighting) on braking. In other words . . . without a fully functioning hst for use on slopes and hills and Inclines . . the purpose why you choose hst instead of gear drive is defeated. Front wheels are needed for breaking on downhill direction situations and the only way front wheels influence braking and directional control stability is witj hst dynamic braking.
In summary . . Many many many of us purchase new tractors for multiple uses in lawns, woods, land lots etc that contsin slopes approved by kubota for their products. So we should be expecting proper hst behavior.
And as part of the summary . . When HST is referred to it refers to springs and dampers and "whatever". And if dealers have tried to adjust bxxx70-1 hst operation and have failed to adjust to how prior models eorked successfully . . then that is absolutel kubotas fault and not to be accepted or hoped thay young operators "won't notice".
All in.my opinion and clarity.
It's clear this topic has got you up on a soapbox. Maybe for good reason, maybe not, I don't presume to know. But I do think it's a bit over the top for a Massey owner to come into the Kubota forum, write a multi-part sermon about a Kubota product and then tell a Kubota owner his "input is not helpful" (i.e. keep quiet) on the subject. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but can we agree everyone, especially Kubota owners, should be welcome to offer thoughtful, polite comments?
AxleHub
Elite Member
What I requested is that posters be clear in their statements and opinions regarding model type and definitions. My choice of brand has nothing to do with accuracy. I'd do the same whther is was massey or yanmar.
My point is . . Honest and clear opinions and input are valuable . . but if someone tries to minimize kubota's responsibility or makes statements about prior models that we all know are not effected but doesn't include the specific year . . at best it creates confusion and at worst it influences new buyers incorrectly.
Lets put it on the line Grandpa, any reader should expect accurate statements and input about the topics discussed. We all know what Kubota has been . . but people are investing and choosing what kubota is now . . I think they deserve clarity.
And my posts are not a soapbox nor are they an emotional or attacks on anything. BUT they are clarifying safety concerns if others statements are accurate. I would expect you to do exactly the same thing on other brands also . . unless of course you don't care about other tractor operators.
But lets be really clear by example. Someone posts "this is the way all hsts operate". I know that is absolutely not true because I've driven past kubotas and new masseys and yanmars. Amd none of them had coasting stop hsts. I believe we are our brothers keeper and that we are responsible to help others and not misleaf for our own purposes . . has nothing about a "soapbox".
If you don't like clarity . . then just ignor me . . don't tell us I'm overstating something . . . everyone is welcome to choose and decide for themselves when they all get clear and accurate info. Imo there is nothing sacred about any vendor color when it comes to safety.
You've had lots of good posts in the past . . but this one was not one of them imo.
Code54
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Have to agree with Grandad4 on this one - I own a BX25D(1) and have NO problems with it. I work on extremely steep hills often over the recommend grade and have NO problems with it and have not found it to be dangerous at all. I also work in close proximity to buildings and near steep drop off's, and never had ANY fear or concern for my safety as it is a EASILY dealt with "issue". I still would rather have this HST than a gear model, it is much easier to control. I know John disagrees that the HST is working as intended and that is totally fine and I don't have a problem with that as he does own one and has a right to a different opinion than me. I do find it odd we have a sermon on the evils of Kubota's HST from someone that does not even own one.
AxleHub
Elite Member
Greetings code,
I liked your post because you were accurate and informing. But you don't see me sermonizing about kubota's . . What you should see by my writing is that I'm trying to get actual users of 70-1 models to input . . not minimize . . to clarify not confuse.
I liked your post because even though you weren't pleasing about me
. you were addressing the issues and concerns . . just as I'd do for you about massey and yanmar.
25d-1. . . . flat land use and hill use and not a noticeable issue you could detect. Now that is a measurable response for those thinking about getting a unit or checking the ones they have before trying new slopes etc..
I'll also repeat something I posted prior. You mentioned JohnThomas's opinions . . but I've also had conversations with 3 others that had opinons similar to John's and 2 of those people I had referred to Kubota dealers. This isn't about 1 person's opinion which is why I'd like to see alot more actual users opinions clarified of the specific 70-1 models (bx18 thru 26).
TripleR
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Good and valid points, none of us need or appreciate being told that because we don't own that particular machine our posts are unneeded, unwanted or irrelevant. Additionally some will not appreciate being lectured on the mechanics, use and safety as though they really don't understand any of this.
