What NOT TO do!!

[bluechip]

I agree, the loader appears to be disgned to minimize cost of "manufacture". (I'm guessing this tractor was much less than all the dealers quoting Koyker loaders) At first I thought the cylinder was able to exert enough force to tear the steel, that would be a clearcut design or material defect. In your case it was the forward motion against an immoveable object that overstressed the loader. In the lower gears, and especially in creeper, one heck of a lot of force can be generated. I'm thinking the end of your bucket was likely well below your lower pivot points, which acted as a fulcrum point, tranfering the tension to the single cylinder, peeling it awayfrom the frame. I would talk to your dealer nicely. I'm sure it can be fixed, but this loader will never be as good a Jinma loader, much less a Koyker. You may have trouble finding hoses for the Jinma fittings, and yours probably has a better valve than the Jinma, but the Jinma frame is strong (seems to have been inspirded by Koyker). If you plan to uproot many trees, you will want a better loader. In all fairness, I'll bet if you stood any loader on the tip of its bucket and drove forward, something would give (probably bend the cylinders). Best of luck in working this out.

 

[RonMar]

That is unfortunate. I have been useing one of Rays loaders for over a year with virtually no issues. Several manufacturers have marketed a single cylinder bucket over the years, it is just another way to do the job and it is simpler/fewer parts. I find the design simple and completely adequate for the tasks that a loader is supposed to be used for(it is not a grader or bulldozer). I bought the loader because it is similar to what I would build and for the price was very reasonable. The mechanical advantage of the rollback cylinder is not all that great and It will open the loader hydraulic safety before anything can be damaged(at least on my loader it does). It of course has enought rollback force to curl a full bucket of wet sand or gravel. In fact, if the hydraulic safety was set correctly, then you shouldn't be able to lift enough weight to damage it. I have used mine on quite a few stumps and the safety just opens if the stump dosn't move when I try and rollback or lift the bucket.

What exactly were you doing when it happened? The only time this point on the loader comes under extreme tension is with a lot of weight/force against the bottom/leading edge of the bucket. The point where the bucket attaches to the lift arms is the fulcrum and the bucket bottom out to the bucket leading edge is the lever. The more weight/force you aply to the bucket edge, the more tension is applied to the rollback cylinder. If you were running/scooping into a pile(with the bucket mostly level), the forces would have been more directly back into the ends of the loader arms and not much force would have been applied to the rollback cylinder.

The fact that the tube is bent leads me to believe this was a sudden catostrophic event. If it had been a series of small overloads, the metal would have fatigued and the tabs that the upper end of the cylinder attaches to would have just ripped out leaving the tube relatively in tact. The tube damage leads me to believe that there was not only enough force to rip the tabs out of the tube, but that it happened so quickly that the tube bent before the tabs could be ripped off completely. It does appear that the weld on one side of one of the tabs failed, but the other weld was still strong enough to rip out the tube wall under that tab. That is why the tube is bent less on this side, it took less force to remove this tab.

I only see two ways for this type failure to happen.
1. You had an extreme load in the bucket and were bouncing it over rough ground(going to fast). Force = Mass X Acceleration. A good bounce could easilly double or tripple the weight of the load in the bucket that the structure would have to absorb. Since most of the weight is up forward anyway, a full bucket makes the rear end feel really squirrely without something on the rear end to counter it so I do this slow with the bucket down low anyway. This is also hard on the front axle as without the ability to slip a tire, the front axle drivetrain can bind and break in 4WD.

2. You had the bucket down at a steep angle and were scraping and ran into an immovable object while at some speed and the loader had to absorb the stored energy in that moveing 3000 LB tactor/FEL Again F = M A. What does the leading edge of the bucket look like? The 254/284 has about 1300 lb of traction force. It would be a little higher with the extra weight of the loader. I have pushed ahead against objects(stumps/boulders) with my loader many times with the bucket in many different positions. When I say pushed, I mean in first gear, Low Low(creeper) range. If the object didn't move, the tractor stopped and the tires just started digging in, even in 4WD. There are a few posts up in the Attachments forum about similar type damage to rear blades and box scrapers being run into stumps and rocks at to high a speed. The impliment or the tractor mount structure always looses.

 

[fishmasterdan]

Ron:
To be more specific about what I was doing.

I was trying to remove a small alder stump. The tree was about 3" in diameter.
I put the loader bucket in under the stump and rolled the bucket then drove forward to pop the root ball out from the ground. As soon as I went foward the cross bar snapped. Peeled open like a pop can.

It seems to be that it should not have peeled the steel like that. The welds did not break it was the metal that failed.

I need to correct one thing. Upon further inspection one of the welds did tear and some rust was observed under the weld. I am thinking that it was a 2 part failure. One being my fault and trying to push over the stump. However I was at a dead stop in low gear in soft dirt when I went foward.
The 2nd part was a weld failure and when the weld broke it put to much force on the other side bending and tearing the the other side where all the pressure was. If you look close to the break you will notice alot more damage on the side with the unbroken weld.

I dont think a single cylinder is a bad design for a smaller tractor. What I think is newbie user error (trying to do to much with the loader) and a poor weld.

 

[JerryG]

I am sure this loader design would be adequate for some. Where the designer failed was to look at how most high-end loaders have a more robust crossbeam. They do for a reason, especially with single cylinder models. If the beam size was doubled, it would more than likely provide for most service situations. I am not fond of the loader design in general but for many people it would suffice with that modification.

 

[Egon]

Is this what you were trying to do?

I don't think it was a newbie error. Just poor design.

 

[fishmasterdan]

Egon;
That is exactly what I was doing. The only difference there is I was in loose dirt.
Great picture.

 

[George2615]

Using 4 WD did not cause the failure. IMHO the failure was caused because of poor design. Under normal use the crossbrace would probably have been fine. Under extreme use such as what you tried to do it wasn't up to the task. If using a single cylinder such as yours, what it mounts to ( the crossbrace) should have been thicker metal to resist twisting. It needs to be beefed up and reinforced. When replacing your crossbrace I'd get a much thicker section of square tubing and add triangle gussets where it attaches to the loader arms. I'd also weld an additional 1/4" plate in the center for the cylinder mount brackets. Good luck on your repairs.

 

[greg_g]

I assume that this comment is meant for hard or dry surfaces. About half of my hours on my Task Master are moving snow. Believe me I need 4wd when I am trying to move 3 feet of snow (with FEL and/or rear blade).

Further to what Chip advises, your tractor has no center differential - only a transfer case. In 4wd on hard surfaces and under good traction conditions, you do NOT want the front and rear wheels rotating at different speeds. Where some guys blow it is taking a full throttle run at the dirt pile to get as big a FEL load as possible. Naturally, the front wheels are going to stop dead in their tracks, but in some instances the rear wheels come right off the ground - spinning. The spinning equates to revolutions of the drive line which equates to revolutions of the transfer case which equates to revolutions of the front drive shaft which quickly discovers it can't turn the front wheels. When coupled with the weight of a full loader, something's gotta give.

In your snow removal conditions, your tires are typically allowed generous slippage. It's unlikely you'll encounter the Chinese 4wd dirt pile effect

//greg//

 

[RonMar]

Egon;
That is exactly what I was doing. The only difference there is I was in loose dirt.
Great picture.

I was writing my first post while you were describing what you were doing, I was just theorizing based on the info in your pics. I have popped out trees/stumps in the same fashion that Egon's picture shows with mine many times, even worked loose some much older and larger stumps and have had no issues with it. I have been pretty rough on mine and have found the design to be quite sound. Only gripes I have had with mine are that the zerks on the end of the lift arms tend to get damaged by rocks getting wedged in between the bucket and the end of the lift arm and that the valve has no float. Personally I think it is well matched for the 254/284 and I would rather repair the FEL structure than the tractor front axel or bellhousing/gearcase as I already have the tools I would need to fabricate any part on that loader.

Next time don't push forward with the bucket edge down, push straight into the edge like you were pushing into a dirt pile to load the bucket. You should also check your safety release pressure on the loader valve. A safety set too high would make the loader work like superman untill something breaks or blows up. Something like that could have contributed to this failure.

 

[schmalts]

Hmm, it appears my post was deleted, probably due to my no holds opinion.
That thing is built like a toy. Thin metal, lack of bracing ect.
The chinese loaders are actually very nice. The reason they do not get imported often is the amount of space they take in a container is better used for tractors.