what on earth does electricity cost near you?

[300UGUY]

I think a lot of the low cost areas are using hydro power. Once built, a dam lasts a long time. But when they have to be replaced, the cost will probably go up to rival ng or nuclear.

 

[Country Geek]

I think a lot of the low cost areas are using hydro power. Once built, a dam lasts a long time. But when they have to be replaced, the cost will probably go up to rival ng or nuclear.

I doubt Kansas is using hydro power

 

[dragoneggs]

It's an interesting calculation and which method to use isn't really clear. For example looking at my situation. I just replaced propane heat with a geothermal heat pump. If I want to calculate my savings, I will use the stated kwh rate not the all-in kwh rate that includes fixed charges simply because I was already paying the fixed part of my bill before I had a geothermal system and will still pay it after... the geothermal system has no effect on that part of my electric bill. I'm aiming for how much it went up due to the new system, compared to how much my gas cost goes down. So the kwh rate not including fixed charges it is.

And make sure you figure in your investment such that you get an accurate ROI when making capital expenditures when introducing alternative energy methods.

 

[buickanddeere]

Around here the treaty contract to buy off the Natives to use their historical hunting land costs more than the dam & equipment. btw they don't venture too far past the reservation any more.

 

[3930dave]

And make sure you figure in your investment such that you get an accurate ROI when making capital expenditures when introducing alternative energy methods.

A good point. Homepower (magazine) usually does a consistently good job of calculating payback on the major projects they report on.

Housing costs keep escalating.

PV Solar cost keep dropping. Inverter electronics are relatively inexpensive. We're all waiting for a break-through battery technology, but other than that, Alt NRG is getting pretty inexpensive, relative to many real-estate markets.

(Edit - Alt NRG meaning Alternative Energy, in general).

Where those two cost lines cross over is going to depend one where you live, how much you consume, and what factors you want to consider/ignore.

One Known Un-Known that I keep in mind is future escalation of grid kwh rates. I'm no gambler, but even I'd bet money they won't go down. Taking yourself off-grid means you take on your own maintenance issues and costs, but that is somewhat balanced (IMO, not just in $ terms) by de-coupling from the grid.

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

There is no pending break through in battery tech. To many people watching Star Trek thinking it's a documentary instead of science fiction .Batteries are a mature product that has plateaued. The only hope is a reduction in price via high production volumes. Unless the Almighty adds something new to the periodic table. There are no more reactive chemical compounds to consider. To make a relatively safe battery with adequate power density that will recharge .

 

[3930dave]

Had a PM'd question that reminded me of this thread:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/302875-alternative-energy-projects.html

I'll post that, instead of continuing to bang on about Alt NRG...... well, for a bit anyways.....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

There is no pending break through in battery tech. To many people watching Star Trek thinking it's a documentary instead of science fiction .Batteries are a mature product that has plateaued. The only hope is a reduction in price via high production volumes. Unless the Almighty adds something new to the periodic table. There are no more reactive chemical compounds to consider. To make a relatively safe battery with adequate power density that will recharge .

That comment of mine was re. the average consumer. In terms of tech, many people today expect to get everything, for almost nothing.

To go off-grid, I'd be willing to write the cheque for today's battery technology. No, I'm not rich.

Rgds, D.

 

[vulcancowboy]

Just looked at my latest bill, .075/KWH...BUT, when you add taxes, surcharges, transmission costs, etc. it works out to .115/KWH.

 

[dmccarty]

There is no pending break through in battery tech. To many people watching Star Trek thinking it's a documentary instead of science fiction .Batteries are a mature product that has plateaued. The only hope is a reduction in price via high production volumes. Unless the Almighty adds something new to the periodic table. There are no more reactive chemical compounds to consider. To make a relatively safe battery with adequate power density that will recharge .

There is a battery formulation called LiFePo that people who own boats are studying very closely. The advantage of LiFePo batteries,

• Lighter than lead acid batteries.
• Do not have the fire issues as other Lithium batteries.
• Ability to go to 80% DOD(Depth of Discharge) vs 50% of lead acid.
• Fast recharge times. LiFePo can take large amounts of energy in a short period of time.
• Cells seem to maintain storage abilities better than lead acid.
• Draining a LiFePo battery does not seem to be damaging compared to a lead acid battery.
• Lifetime cycles are about 3 times lead acid.

Course the problem is that LiFePo is more expense than lead acid. I think 3-4 times more expensive. However, the 80% DOD minimizes the expense as does the longer lifespan of the batteries. Lithium is not a green material though.

The big problem is the system around using LiFePo batteries is not matured at all. You don't just replace a lead acid battery with LiFePo. The charging characteristics are different and that is what some very smart people on the boating forums are testing. The companies selling the batteries are telling people to charge at rates that will damage the batteries over time which seems short sighted to say the least.

On a boat using solar and wind to generate power that is stored in batteries especially LiFePo batteries makes a great deal of money sense. When I run the numbers to put in solar and battery storage for our house, it does not make money sense. The batteries are just too danged expensive and I am talking lead acid. Having to replace the batteries every so often just kills the money savings. If LiFePo batteries drop in price, that might change the numbers.

Later,
Dan