What size snow bucket - DS4510HS

[gladehound]

Hi all, looking for some opinions (hopefully educated opinions) on the following:

The questions is: What size snow bucket will be most efficient for snow removal with at Kioti DS4510HS? Of better yet... any reasons I shouldn't get an 8 foot wide snow bucket? This is for snows too heavy/deep to do with back blade.

Considerations: 8 foot would allow one pass clearing but may get bent more easily or put more stress on loader arms if I catch a corner. 8 foot requires better build quality to stay straight which means more weight and price. 8 foot may not push through some places where a smaller bucket would.

Some buckets I've looked at (keep in mind I have a 66" bucket for digging):
- Tomahawk snow bucket 27" high 37" deep and 6-8 feet wide (450 pounds in 7 foot width) - cheapest and lightest - but is it too light to go 8 foot?
- Local Amish made snow bucket 30" high 39" deep and 6-8 feet wide (600 pounds in 7 foot width) - most expensive - still not too heavy
- BD standard snow bucket (don't know hight / depth) looks like Tomahawk bucket. Assume 6-8ft width available (500 pounds in 6 foot width) - in between price of other two
I don't want to be over ~$1200

Additional related information so that you don't have to ask these questions:
- Tractor width 69 inches
- Loader lift ~2800 full hights, ~3700 at ground
- Bucket roll back force ~3000 pounds at 20" from pin
- tractor weight ~6500 pounds with loader, standard bucket a little balast and me. Can add a lot more balast if needed - not an issue.
- Has skid steer style quick attached with 66" bucket (my digging bucket). Bucket weight is probably ~350 pounds. ~20" high ~20" deep
- Removing snow from 4 gravel and 4 paved driveways (as a favor in return for other favors)
- will use edge tamers or pipe on gravel
- Starting from street and going towards house / garage
- most drives are single lane and 200-400 ft long with a turn around area at the house end
- Typical snow under 1 foot but sometimes get a heavy 2-3 footer (once every few years)
- would love power angle v-plow on loader arms but too much $$$
- A straight power angle plow will be too far out front for the wheel base
- A snow blower cost too much $$$
- A pusher is no good when starting from road and going towards house

Hope that's not too much information up front! I know how you guys like to ask questions

 

[DK35vince]

- A snow blower cost too much $$$:

Have you ever checked into a used snow blower ?
I decided to look for used snow blowers this year.
I didn't look long and came across this 63" dual stage blower for $800.
Very good condition and works great.

 

[DK35vince]

- A straight power angle plow will be too far out front for the wheel base

Sorry, I'm still not really answering your bucket question.
But when running my straight power angle blade front blade (converted 9' Western truck plow) in the straight position I don't think my wheel base is any/much longer than with the bucket.
I kept my front blade as far back as I could to weld the SSQA plate on. The blades angle cylinders run underneath the front of the loader arms.
I think I have around $500 in my converted truck plow front blade setup.

 

[oosik]

Well - I have a 72"- 465# bucket on my tractor. However, the size of the bucket is not the point. A bucket, of any kind & size, is really not that efficient for snow removal/clearing, especially if the snow is deep/heavy. I would just stay with your 66" bucket and save the $$$ for something else. A used snow blower is a much more efficient snow removal implement.
However, if you are set on a wider bucket - I think 7' should be about max. As you get wider it will be putting a lot of extra side torque on the loader arms.

 

[Rustyiron]

My guess Glade, is that if your snow is too deep for your rear blade, a little bit bigger bucker (smooth edge) would help. In my past experience, if the storm "got ahead of me" and I needed to clear it "full depth" with only a bucket, the best approach was to push it diagonally to the side, kinda herringbone pattern. The deeper the snow, the quicker you headed for the side. Don't worry about a neat job, just remove 50-60% then switch back to "normal" operations, going long way with the drive. You may need to be creative if your in the woods with this method.
I like your "sweeps" on your tractor! Do you work it a lot in the woods?

 

[gladehound]

My cousin has a 9' power angle truck plow sitting in the field that he offered to give me. He owns a metal shop and would help me convert it to a quick attach plate. However, I'm not new at this game. I've used angle plows on loader arms before and have always found the result unsatisfactory.

1) tractor walks sideways far to soon because the wheel base is short and the distance from the front wheels to the angled blade is long.
2) There seems to be a lot of concern about bending loader arms with this set up. Although I never bent a loader.

That being said, I like your set up DK35vince. Maybe I could get the blade back far enough if I mounted it the way that you did. Do you get heavy snow where you are and if so how deep can you run with the blade angled and still steer?

I previously set up a 6 foot plow on a 20 hp tractor that worked well enough but that was mounted under the frame. I still plowed with it straight rather than angled much of the time because it was easier to keep the pipe on the blade in the gravel with the blade straight.

That same cousin has a 6 foot blower sitting in same field and has nothing he can run it on. Said I can borrow it until he sets up something to run it. I'm anxious to play with it but have never been a fan of operating the tractor backwards in that half twisted position that we all are too familiar with. Plus, i don't want to throw stones.

A power V-plow would be the ticket because the tractor would not walk sideways. With a v-plow, it doesn't matter how far it is in front of you. In the past when using buckets, they actually act like a v-plow if you have enough weight behind them. The snow piles in front of the bucket and if you can push it, the snow spills off both sides of the pile. If the bucket were the same width as the driveway (8 feet). You could drive down one time and clear the long skinny part of the driveway. Once in the turn around a bucket is better than a blade because there is often limited space to put snow so you need to move it.

I'll have to run my cousin's blower and see if I like using it. For some reason I can't help to think it will be a mess (throw snow up in the air and all over me on an otherwise nice post storm day), it will be a pain (will wake up next day with back and neck issues due to operating in that twisted position) and finally, I think it will be slow... but maybe not.

Regarding the comment about putting stress on the loader arms with an 8 foot bucket... wouldn't an 8 foot blade put just as much stress on them? Sure, it has a trip edge but sometimes when the snow bank doesn't move the trip edge doesn't help.

 

[gladehound]

My guess Glade, is that if your snow is too deep for your rear blade, a little bit bigger bucker (smooth edge) would help. In my past experience, if the storm "got ahead of me" and I needed to clear it "full depth" with only a bucket, the best approach was to push it diagonally to the side, kinda herringbone pattern. The deeper the snow, the quicker you headed for the side. Don't worry about a neat job, just remove 50-60% then switch back to "normal" operations, going long way with the drive. You may need to be creative if your in the woods with this method.
I like your "sweeps" on your tractor! Do you work it a lot in the woods?

Thanks for the reply. I do work the the woods a lot. Not sure what you're refereing to as "sweeps"

 

[DK35vince]

That being said, I like your set up DK35vince. Maybe I could get the blade back far enough if I mounted it the way that you did. Do you get heavy snow where you are and if so how deep can you run with the blade angled and still steer?.

In my area of Pa. I think we average around 60 inches per year snowfall.
Most of our snowfalls are under a foot, but we do get the occasional 1' to 1 1/2' snowfall.
If I don't put a lot of weight on the blade (just set the blade down lightly, do not float the FEL) I rarely have any problem steering. I run chains on all 4.
I can get drifting here and push back the snow backs with the blade angled with no problems.

 

[arrow]

Thanks for the reply. I do work the the woods a lot. Not sure what you're refereing to as "sweeps"

I believe the poster is referring to the "cage" around your tractor as pictured in your avatar. It is nice. Did you make this yourself?

 

[skyhook]

Take the 9' plow from your cousin, and keep your bucket.
That tractor should be able to handle it with no problems, you could always shorten the plow if needed.
With good rear ballast, the plow sticking out that far shouldn't be an issue "with that tractor".IMO

 

[gladehound]

I believe the poster is referring to the "cage" around your tractor as pictured in your avatar. It is nice. Did you make this yourself?

I liked that cage. It was great in the woods because stuff would just ride up the two front rails and over the top. The small size of the tractor helped. On the flip side, that tractors lift limitations were a negative in the woods when moving trees around. It was made by Precission Chassis in Limerick PA. They typically build frames and cages for drag race cars.

I cut that cage appart and my cousin's metal shop welded it up to fit the DS4510HS. I couldn't run the main frame over the hood because it is a very wide tilt up hood compared the the LB1914 which was all panels that come off individually. Here's a picture with the same cage on the DS4510HS.

 

[nybirdman]

I run a coverted 8ft.Curtis on the FEL with a similar sized(L4240 Kubota) and a seven ft. rear blade with no problems.R1 tires loaded,no chains.

 

[gladehound]

Let's get this back on topic... There are hundreds of threads talking about the best ways to move snow and I realize buckets are at the bottom of the list (just above shovel). I've used rear blades, converted truck plows and buckets (and shovels!). I have not used a blower. But my question is about buckets (this doesn't mean I won't convert the 9 foot plow, that I won't use my rear blade or try my cousins 6 foot blower).

The only recommendation about bucket size has been to not exceed 7 foot width because it will stress the loader arms too much if pressure is applied to the outer edge. That is a very valid concern and based on comments from other threads where people have bent loader arms with a snow pusher (similar concept) I agree, I should stay under 7 foot. In fact 78" would nicely cover my wheels with wiggle room and be wide enough for any of the vehicles at the 8 homes I plow to get in and out (but 84" would be a little better). 78" would probably also be a better option for manuverability.

A point that may have been missed here is that I'm looking for a much deeper / higher bucket, not just wider. My current bucket is 9 cu foot struck capacity and I'd like to have something around 30 cu foot for moving light materials. I didn't mention it before but I'd have other uses for the larger bucket (like moving fire wood) but the plow would sit most the time.

Finally, I don't think a plow will be good for starting at the road and going towards a house with no place to put the snow near the house. Snow has to be blown out of some of the turn arounds or lifted out with a bucket. While I do believe a power v-plow on the loader arms and blower on the back is the best set up - that is big money and doesn't help move firewood.

So right now the question is on buckets. I've narrowed it down to either a 78" or 84" bucket, probably the Tomahawk due to price, weight and the fact that it has the lowest volume of the three (so that it doesn't kill my roll back force as much) while still being much much more volume than the standard bucket. 84" probably better for snow, 78" probably better for my other uses (acually 72" probably best form my other uses but not big enough for snow). Note that a 72" Tomahawk snow bucket still has 2.5X the capacity of my standard 66" bucket so these are much higher volume buckets that I am considering.

 

[Tractor Tom]

Hey Glade, I think you'll be fine with either the 84 or the 78 inch bucket. I'm thinking a load would have to be very heavy and completely on one side to bend the loader frame. Even then I'm not sure it would?? I'm not an engineer, that's just my gut feel from 30 + years of running small tractors.

I will put in a plug for a front blade. Until this year I have Always used the bucket and Blower to move snow. I put a blade on the front this year and all I can say is why did it take me so long to figure this out!! I doubt I'll even put the Bucket on this year at all. Yes the blade is out front a long way...But I get NO front push at all, even in a foot of heavy wet snow.

 

[aeblank]

To be fair, loaders have snow or coal buckets fairly frequently. If you did a proportional weight comparison of dirt vs snow, I'm sure a much much larger bucket is fine. Not sure what multiplier to put on it for torque. I largely think that is a vastly over-stated concern (bending loader arms), though. While I'm sure it happens, I've never known of someone doing it.

 

[gladehound]

I think the risk of bending loader arms come into play if are moving and accidentally hit something that wont move with the corner of the bucket (rock, tree, frozen snow bank etc). I agree that it seems highly unlikely just lifting something.

Back in my youth I remember a good 3 ft heave wet snow that none of the state trucks could get through. They used front end loaders with buckets to break the roads open. The loaders weren't scooping and dumping. They just put the bucket down, drove straight and let the extra roll off the sides. The plow trucks followed to widen the path. Maybe this is unrealistic with a 45hp tractor.

 

[DK35vince]

Back in my youth I remember a good 3 ft heave wet snow that none of the state trucks could get through. They used front end loaders with buckets to break the roads open. The loaders weren't scooping and dumping. They just put the bucket down, drove straight and let the extra roll off the sides. The plow trucks followed to widen the path. Maybe this is unrealistic with a 45hp tractor.

I don't think its unrealistic. You should have plenty of tractor for that.
You would likely need to dump the bucket on occasion, but you could probably go pretty far between dumps depending on snow depth..

 

[arrow]

I actually went through this thought process myself. Larger bucket or snow pusher. Have the rear blade already. The mere fact that you mention to have to scoop out snow near the house and move it elsewhere gives the most rationale for a bucket as a snow buckets's main purpose and advantage in my mind, is to move snow from one place to another. Another advantage is that in deeper snows, a snow bucket mitigates the snow coming over the top of the smaller regular dirt bucket. It can be left on all winter long for wood gathering. A smaller bucket might prove more maneuverable but what needs to be considered is how close to "things" will you need to work the bucket. At times it's nice to not have to cozy up the tractor to things you do not care to hit because the bucket is wide enough to sort of "squirrel" in there. What you need to "finesse" around I think would weigh more in a consideration for bucket width size rather than snow movement.

 

[jacques54]

This is what I have done for snow removal. I take the snow in front of the house to the sea shore in the back. I could not make it bigger when fill with wet snow it is close to tip even with the snow-blower in the back.

J

Jacques

 

[skyhook]

Put the 7 footer on, I don't see a problem for a bigger bucket on your 45 hp tractor.
True, if you hit something with the side of it, "it may" damage something (most likely not),
but the same is also true for a smaller bucket.
So to answer your question, if you can get a bigger bucket, go for it. IMO
Your tractor will let you know if it's overweight.