What to look for when testing a used machine

[KMA]

stick on heating pads, magnetic heaters, etc certainly will help when it is cold as will synthetic oil. A good battery, cable, and connections also go a long way towards starting.

Yeah, this is good advice and just about the only option for [some] EH65 engine owners. I would use a magnetic heater to warm the engine and hydraulic oil before starting when the temps were below 45 degrees or so. The new engine I swapped in definitely helped in the cold, such that it hasn't been an issue for me at least. That being said, I'm having issues with heat that I believe are related to the stock exhaust manifold/muffler. I plan to make a new one in the near future and will update my thread.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

Today, the temp climbed to 60 degrees and my 422 wouldn't start. Gave up after 10 minutes of trying and three very loud backfires.
Friday, it was 29 degrees and it started on the second try. Not sure what else to try.

 

[Gravy]

Frank,

I understand your frustration with the Robin engine in the PT. It's actually a very good engine once it starts, but the cards are stacked against it in the PT. The PT design is kinda like expecting a truck to start from cold, in gear, with the clutch engaged. It can be done, but it's not always easy.

For me the Number One issue has always been how fast the engine spins while cranking. I've learned that it's not so much the temperature of the air that matters - it's the temperature of the machine. If the oil and the battery are cold, you are starting out with two strikes against you. Slow cranking = flooded engine. If you can work out a way to warm it up and give the starter every possible advantage for spinning the engine fast, life will get much better.

 

[Andretreeservice]

I am a young business owner in michigan that is having a hard time finding a used power trac that is priced in the entry level. am mechanically inclined and am not afraid of a unit that needs some love.
please letme know if you have any leads within 800 miles of michigan.
thank you in advance !

 

[woodlandfarms]

So can you tell us your price range and what size machine you are hoping for?

 

[Andretreeservice]

My budget is 4500. Don't really need any attachments other than a bucket or forks. Grapple would be a plus.
A grapple would be awesome but I ought to stay realistic.
It seems inviting to purchase a new one for 8000 as anything used still seems to go for 75 per cent of cost new !!! ???
Thank you for the inquiry and welcoming me

 

[MossRoad]

If you're looking at the 400 series, I'd stick with the 425. It has dual steering rams and a larger engine. Also, the newer model year 425s have a higher lift than the older model years.

I think the reason you don't see many of them for sale is that they are doing their function for the owner and the owner is satisfied so far. That probably also drive the used cost up.

 

[Marks481]

If you're looking at the 400 series, I'd stick with the 425. It has dual steering rams...

Or get the older PT422 which also has dual rams. I think they made the switch in 2003 or 2004? Rmconnell's 2003 machine probably is set up that way.

++1 . Dual steering rams are the way to go, as 3 people have ripped out their single steering ram. Bad design, IMHO. Yes, my PT422 has a single ram, and I keep a close eye on the attachment point.

 

[Andretreeservice]

Or get the older PT422 which also has dual rams. I think they made the switch in 2003 or 2004? Rmconnell's 2003 machine probably is set up that way.

++1 . Dual steering rams are the way to go, as 3 people have ripped out their single steering ram. Bad design, IMHO. Yes, my PT422 has a single ram, and I keep a close eye on the attachment point.

Thank all you guys for sharing your past experience and knowledge. I am already sold on a PT just have to be at the right time at the right place now.....

 

[SpringHollow]

Actually, it seems to me that the resale value on PT's is terrible comparable to CUT's, mainly because most people do not know what they are. This is probably much less true on the smaller ones like the 425. Also, the larger ones have typically been used commercially and have seen a hard life which also lowers their value.

Ken

 

[ponytug]

Personally, I think used tractors are a complete crapshoot. You have no idea if it ran out of oil, the guy's handyman ran once without cleaning the radiator and cooked it, or the time they used it as the middle link on a chain of trucks to rip out a monster stump.

"You paysa your money, and you makesa your choice..." Your usage will also impact what the perceived value is; do you need it to be ready 24x7? Can it be down for three weeks?

Sometimes you luck out into sweet deals my neighbor bought a Kubota for 40% of list, with 42 hours on it in two years.

YMMV.

I wouldn't trade my PT for anything. My neighbor down the hill tipped his yellow tractor driving it on a road on one of his slopes. He lived. The tractor has been there two weeks. It's going to take a team of guys to get it turned around and pulled up. You can't get another vehicle close enough to anchor a winch, there are no trees, and I think the nearest 1845 is Carl's in Washington. The slope must be 40 degrees and goes up three hundred feet, so it would take a couple of semi wreckers to pull it from the top.

My point is, if you need a PT, you need one and there is no substitute. If you don't absolutely need one, you have choices, and those choices involve tradeoffs, one of which is price.

All the best,

Peter

Actually, it seems to me that the resale value on PT's is terrible comparable to CUT's, mainly because most people do not know what they are. This is probably much less true on the smaller ones like the 425. Also, the larger ones have typically been used commercially and have seen a hard life which also lowers their value.

Ken

 

[SpringHollow]

I had great luck in my used CUT's that I bought. The most major repair I ever had to do was a water pump and they were all able to be sold for more than what I paid. I could not say those things about my PT. But do not get me wrong, I would not trade my PT for any CUT that I know of. It meets my needs so well that I literally use it more in one year than I did with my CUT's in 10 years. It is well worth its peculiarities. When other people realize that, their resale value will increase. But I am not sure that will ever happen.

Ken

 

[MossRoad]

Its kinda funny how we cuss and mumble but can't find anything that does the job better for less. :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

And how many of you get on your PT and smile internally?

 

[woodlandfarms]

I smile when my neighbors call me for help. Last week mowed a new neighbors blackberries down on a severe slope (house was abandoned and way overgrown) and his wife started to cry when she realized how good of a house they have and how a simple mow job would make it so much better. Second was the next door neighbors and going over on sever slopes and drilling post holes for their new fenceline.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

Is there a way to valve off the hydraulic load at the pumps for easier starting in colder months?

 

[MossRoad]

Is there a way to valve off the hydraulic load at the pumps for easier starting in colder months?

That's a very good question.
Let's discuss the 400 series.
There are two PTO pumps.
Main PTO pump.
AUX PTO/steering/FEL pump.

It's my understanding the main PTO pump just pumps right through the soleniod block and back into the tank until you flip the dash switch, then it pumps through the ports on the FEL arms. So, its about as bypassed as you can get already.

The AUX PTO/steering/FEL pump pumps through the steering valve, out the power-beyond port, through the FEL valve body and back into the tank. Those valves are open center, so don't know how my resistance they offer. You could certainly put a diverter valve right after the output of that pump and send the fluid directly back to the tank. That would take most pressure off of that circuit.

Now for the variable volume tram pump. When your foot is off the treadle, the swash plate is neutral and the gas motor is just spinning the plate in the fluid inside the pump. There really is no way to bypass that. I'm sure its thick fluid when its cold. Again, as I understand it, the only time the tram pump draws fluid from the tank is for the makeup section. For the most part, the tram circuit is a closed loop and only needs to replace fluid leaked past the tram pump. As long as you have the treadle in the neutral position there is not load going through the wheel motors. The only way to bypass the tram pump would be to put it on a clutch.

I think the first and best option to reduce load on startup would be running synthetic variable viscosity oil in the engine and hydraulic system.

My second choice would be to put a selector valve in the AUX PTO/steering/fel circuit to bypass the valve and go directly back to the tank.

The first choice would require zero mechanical mods and would cost the price of two quarts of synthetic for the engine and 40 quarts for the hydraulics.
The second choice would cost the price of the valve (about a hundred bucks here: Selector Valves ) plus the price of a hose and a T or Y to tap into the return to the tank.

I switched my engine to 5w30 Mobil1 at my first oil change and at every 50 hour filter change I top off with the same oil in my hydraulic tank. So, I've got about 9 qys of diluted synthetic in there by now.

 

[J_J]

Actually, the charge pump on the VSP pump is always pumping fluid at about 10 % of the volume of the tram pump.

Once the pressure is acquired for the tram pump, it is relieved at about 300 psi, probably into the case and back to tank.

The PTO pump just bypasses through the valve and goes to tank.

The steering and lift fluid is just just forced through the steering box, loader valve and back to tank.

So the primary resistance is the fluid itself, and like MossRoad said, take advantage of the synthetic fluid.

A magnetic heater or an in tank heater would also help with cold starting.

Synthetic oil in the engine and hyd tank would also help.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

Do you have to pull the engine to replace the starter on the 422?

 

[BobRip]

I replaced mine without pulling the engine. I have a model year 2000. It has pumps in front of and behind the engine. Yours may have pumps on only one end.