rico304
Gold Member
KentT.......
Nicely said. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Nicely said. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
what tractor do you tow with compact truck?
- Thread starter shadoe
- Start date
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Kent,
I do agree that in an ideal world, all vehicles should perform up to their spec limits, but this isn't an ideal world. First off, about 75-80% of compact trucks never pull anything and those that do pull only pull light. Not a slam, just a keen observation. The ramification of that observation is that automotive engineers (being a bright bunch) design the compact trucks to have very "car like" ride and handling. It's a major buying point. "That one rides like an old wagon, this one rides nice!" Ever heard that? You can bet the manufacturers have and responded to it. So, as a general class, compact trucks have pretty light suspension, brakes, steering and transmissions. Why? It's cheaper to make, gets better mileage but most of all that's what the buyers want. Small, light, nimble with car like performance. The focus is not on hauling performance, sure they can still do it, but it is about 5th or 6th out of 5 design priorities.
Next, "properly equipped" usually means that you checked off a bunch of boxes at the time the truck was ordered. Better tires, wheels, front suspension, rear suspension, bigger radiator, additional transmission cooler, hitch, wiring, HD electronics to accept the load of trailer lights, etc. AND using a weight distributing hitch, a trailer with brakes having the load properly distributed. Most importantly the 3.92 rpm screamer gear ratio. I've seen light trucks squat like a dog tak'n a cr-p because the load was too far forward by as few as 5-6 inches. And that's a load within spec ratings. Don't forget the specs are usually written to make the mfg look good and are for the lightest version they make. 2wd, 2 door stripped model. There is less capacity by adding options like club cab, 4wd.
From the Dodge web page, the 4x2 St Dakota weighs 4411. Max towing is 7000. Great right? Read the rest. Standard towing is 2000, which version did you buy? There's more. Gross vehicle weight is 6010#. That's gross and includes you, your passengers, gear and trailer tongue weight. So, if you weigh 200#, wife is 150#, 2 kids at 75# each, misc gear at 200# what's left for the tongue weight? 6010-4411-700= 899# max tongue. But there's more. Did you get the club cab? 4x4? have a full tank of fuel? As you can see, the max vehicle load limit quickly eats up the budget for trailer tongue weight. It also eats up some of the max tow capacity as there is a Combined Max weight limit too. Max Combined is 11700 - 4411 = 7289 max trailer. So, the realistic max is closer to 5500-6000# and you probably have to take great pains to balance the load to limit tongue weight.
Now, the great big trucks with diesels that are rated to tow 13,000#, are they immune to this same stuff? No way! But, they have more available budget. The realistic max is probably 11,500 if the listed max is 13,000. (and note, the max is not 15,000, it's around 13,000 for the diesel dodge 2500)
Remember, if you didn't order it special, the max towing capacity is around 2,000 pounds. IF you did order it special, the max towing is 7000 pounds MINUS the weight of all the stuff in the truck including fuel weight, option weight and people weight. And that's only if you don't exceed the max vehicle weight due to tongue weight (which should be about 12-15% of the trailer weight).
I do agree that in an ideal world, all vehicles should perform up to their spec limits, but this isn't an ideal world. First off, about 75-80% of compact trucks never pull anything and those that do pull only pull light. Not a slam, just a keen observation. The ramification of that observation is that automotive engineers (being a bright bunch) design the compact trucks to have very "car like" ride and handling. It's a major buying point. "That one rides like an old wagon, this one rides nice!" Ever heard that? You can bet the manufacturers have and responded to it. So, as a general class, compact trucks have pretty light suspension, brakes, steering and transmissions. Why? It's cheaper to make, gets better mileage but most of all that's what the buyers want. Small, light, nimble with car like performance. The focus is not on hauling performance, sure they can still do it, but it is about 5th or 6th out of 5 design priorities.
Next, "properly equipped" usually means that you checked off a bunch of boxes at the time the truck was ordered. Better tires, wheels, front suspension, rear suspension, bigger radiator, additional transmission cooler, hitch, wiring, HD electronics to accept the load of trailer lights, etc. AND using a weight distributing hitch, a trailer with brakes having the load properly distributed. Most importantly the 3.92 rpm screamer gear ratio. I've seen light trucks squat like a dog tak'n a cr-p because the load was too far forward by as few as 5-6 inches. And that's a load within spec ratings. Don't forget the specs are usually written to make the mfg look good and are for the lightest version they make. 2wd, 2 door stripped model. There is less capacity by adding options like club cab, 4wd.
From the Dodge web page, the 4x2 St Dakota weighs 4411. Max towing is 7000. Great right? Read the rest. Standard towing is 2000, which version did you buy? There's more. Gross vehicle weight is 6010#. That's gross and includes you, your passengers, gear and trailer tongue weight. So, if you weigh 200#, wife is 150#, 2 kids at 75# each, misc gear at 200# what's left for the tongue weight? 6010-4411-700= 899# max tongue. But there's more. Did you get the club cab? 4x4? have a full tank of fuel? As you can see, the max vehicle load limit quickly eats up the budget for trailer tongue weight. It also eats up some of the max tow capacity as there is a Combined Max weight limit too. Max Combined is 11700 - 4411 = 7289 max trailer. So, the realistic max is closer to 5500-6000# and you probably have to take great pains to balance the load to limit tongue weight.
Now, the great big trucks with diesels that are rated to tow 13,000#, are they immune to this same stuff? No way! But, they have more available budget. The realistic max is probably 11,500 if the listed max is 13,000. (and note, the max is not 15,000, it's around 13,000 for the diesel dodge 2500)
Remember, if you didn't order it special, the max towing capacity is around 2,000 pounds. IF you did order it special, the max towing is 7000 pounds MINUS the weight of all the stuff in the truck including fuel weight, option weight and people weight. And that's only if you don't exceed the max vehicle weight due to tongue weight (which should be about 12-15% of the trailer weight).
KentT
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
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- Sevierville, TN
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- 1993 Power Trac 1430 w/Kubota diesel engine
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Remember, if you didn't order it special, the max towing capacity is around 2,000 pounds. IF you did order it special, the max towing is 7000 pounds MINUS the weight of all the stuff in the truck including fuel weight, option weight and people weight. And that's only if you don't exceed the max vehicle weight due to tongue weight (which should be about 12-15% of the trailer weight).
BTW<
)</font>
I bought my Dakota off the lot with the HD trailer towing package -- every V8 on the dealer's lot at that time had the HD package -- that's how the dealer ordered them.
I don't know about the V-6s since I didn't look at them.
BTW, I was using those numbers for a 3500 diesel Ram, not a 2500. Also, I've repeatedly said "properly equipped" -- mine is -- and my trailer has brakes, and I always use a weight distributing hitch...
My point still stands -- a properly equipped compact/midsize will tow a 5,000 lb trailer package safely. That allows me 2,000 pounds still for fuel, passengers, stuff in the box, etc.
An improperly equipped 1500 series won't necessarily do any better, or even the same -- so it isn't just "size".... In fact, I'd go so far as to say that my Dakota is safer with the weight-distributing hitch that I use than many of the 2500/3500 series that I see towing heavy loads on pintle hooks without weight distributing hitches...
All of us do NOT need 2500 or 3500 series pickups, especially those of us who also need 4WD and extended/quad cabs, or those of us who have to drive and park in urban areas... a properly equipped subcompact/midsize is all we need....
My Dakota drives and parks much more like a car which is important since I also commute about 50 miles a day -- try that with a 4WD 2500/3500 extended/quad cab -- especially one with a long box. I only tow maybe every two months on average. I moved down from 1500/150 size trucks and am happy with the change.... ( I have 3.55 gears and I do sometimes wish that I had the optional 3.90s, but then I've fed V-8s with 3.90 gears and didn't enjoy that experience either....)
Your mileage may vary... but then, I'm also not calling anyone stupid because of the truck they drive, either.... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Why don't we just recommend that everyone also get that 50HP or larger tractor while we're at it, just because they'll lift 500 lbs safely (the limit for many SCUT loaders) and never know that it's pulling a 4ft rough cut mower... Why? Because that would be overkill, that's why. The small property owner doesn't need one...
If I were pulling a trailer daily or making my living with my truck, I'd be driving a 2500/3500 diesel, but I don't... IMO, 2500/3500 pickups are also overkill for many people, just as 50 HP tractors are....
I'll repeat -- properly equipped, with brakes on the trailer and a weight-distributing hitch ...
BTW<
)</font>
I bought my Dakota off the lot with the HD trailer towing package -- every V8 on the dealer's lot at that time had the HD package -- that's how the dealer ordered them.
I don't know about the V-6s since I didn't look at them.
BTW, I was using those numbers for a 3500 diesel Ram, not a 2500. Also, I've repeatedly said "properly equipped" -- mine is -- and my trailer has brakes, and I always use a weight distributing hitch...
My point still stands -- a properly equipped compact/midsize will tow a 5,000 lb trailer package safely. That allows me 2,000 pounds still for fuel, passengers, stuff in the box, etc.
An improperly equipped 1500 series won't necessarily do any better, or even the same -- so it isn't just "size".... In fact, I'd go so far as to say that my Dakota is safer with the weight-distributing hitch that I use than many of the 2500/3500 series that I see towing heavy loads on pintle hooks without weight distributing hitches...
All of us do NOT need 2500 or 3500 series pickups, especially those of us who also need 4WD and extended/quad cabs, or those of us who have to drive and park in urban areas... a properly equipped subcompact/midsize is all we need....
My Dakota drives and parks much more like a car which is important since I also commute about 50 miles a day -- try that with a 4WD 2500/3500 extended/quad cab -- especially one with a long box. I only tow maybe every two months on average. I moved down from 1500/150 size trucks and am happy with the change.... ( I have 3.55 gears and I do sometimes wish that I had the optional 3.90s, but then I've fed V-8s with 3.90 gears and didn't enjoy that experience either....)
Your mileage may vary... but then, I'm also not calling anyone stupid because of the truck they drive, either.... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Why don't we just recommend that everyone also get that 50HP or larger tractor while we're at it, just because they'll lift 500 lbs safely (the limit for many SCUT loaders) and never know that it's pulling a 4ft rough cut mower... Why? Because that would be overkill, that's why. The small property owner doesn't need one...
If I were pulling a trailer daily or making my living with my truck, I'd be driving a 2500/3500 diesel, but I don't... IMO, 2500/3500 pickups are also overkill for many people, just as 50 HP tractors are....
I'll repeat -- properly equipped, with brakes on the trailer and a weight-distributing hitch ...
Piedmont3
Silver Member
I believe it is a different mind set.
Some people believe that a big truck does everything better, and they need that big truck (2500/3500 F350)to haul 1500lbs.
I believe that If you have your tow vehicle well maintained and it has the load leveling/weight distributing hitch, and you trailer has brakes on each axle, and you chain your load correctly, and are not over capacity according to the manufacturer's ratings, you should be able to tow your tractor with the truck of your choice, LARGE MiDsIzE or small.
We don't all need 7500lb vehicles to tow 10000lb trailers.
Some of us need 4000lb vehicles to tow 2500lb trailers.
Stay within the limits of your vehicle, chain your load, Don't drive it like you stole it, and you should be fine.
Some people believe that a big truck does everything better, and they need that big truck (2500/3500 F350)to haul 1500lbs.
I believe that If you have your tow vehicle well maintained and it has the load leveling/weight distributing hitch, and you trailer has brakes on each axle, and you chain your load correctly, and are not over capacity according to the manufacturer's ratings, you should be able to tow your tractor with the truck of your choice, LARGE MiDsIzE or small.
We don't all need 7500lb vehicles to tow 10000lb trailers.
Some of us need 4000lb vehicles to tow 2500lb trailers.
Stay within the limits of your vehicle, chain your load, Don't drive it like you stole it, and you should be fine.
JimR
Elite Member
One thing to always remember when towing with a small truck. Your brakes are much smaller than a big truck. If your trailer brakes fail, your butt is grass. I tried this just for the heck of it a year ago. My 2000 4Dr. 4WD Blazer is rated at 5500 pounds towing cap. I towed my tractor on a U-Haul trailer down the street and tried to stop with no trailer brakes. I had locked them with the reverse locking pin. YeeHaa, I was being pushed along nicely. I did the same thing with my 1994 Ford F250 4WD and stopped the trailer with little effort. Bigger is better if your brakes fail, or don't work on your trailer.
rico304
Gold Member
I hear what you are saying about the brakes, but it doesn't make any sense to me. If you have a big truck towing 55% of capacity, and a small truck towing 55% of it's towing capacity, why would you say a large truck has better brakes for that?
Either way, I think KentT has hit it on the head.
Either way, I think KentT has hit it on the head.
Bah humbug! Piffle!
You guys who beat the crap out of your lesser, wimpy, cheapo toy vehicles (and all Fords) are just crying because you DIDN'T buy the only real truck worth having, and about the only thing GM has done right in the past 5 years:
Chevy Silverado 2500HD LT Ext Cab 4x4 Diesel Allison
I recommend you all sell your monkey-mobiles and get the real thing, just so you'll quit trying to defend your ill-thought-out purchases with your weasel math and bogus manufacturer marketing claims.
Wanna argue with it? Fine... back up to me and hitch on... I'll tow your whiny little toy parade to Alaska...
You guys who beat the crap out of your lesser, wimpy, cheapo toy vehicles (and all Fords) are just crying because you DIDN'T buy the only real truck worth having, and about the only thing GM has done right in the past 5 years:
Chevy Silverado 2500HD LT Ext Cab 4x4 Diesel Allison
I recommend you all sell your monkey-mobiles and get the real thing, just so you'll quit trying to defend your ill-thought-out purchases with your weasel math and bogus manufacturer marketing claims.
Wanna argue with it? Fine... back up to me and hitch on... I'll tow your whiny little toy parade to Alaska...
JimR
Elite Member
Larger trucks have a larger carrying capacity which means they have larger brakes. So if your trailer brakes fail on your little truck, good luck. I tow with both my vehicles and always wonder what will happen if they fail or when trailering in the rain.
wushaw
Elite Member
I don't have a compact or regular pickup but something you guys with the compact trucks may consider if ya don't already have them is LT tires instead of P rated, the LT tires have stiffer sidewalls for better stability and more load capacity.
otus_branch
Silver Member
My, but this thread has drifted far from the original question: namely, what tractor DOES one tow with a compact truck?
To get us back in that direction, I'll note that I've farmed for the past few years on several different plots of land with a BCS 2-wheeler, towed on a single-axle landscape trailer by a 1987 Ford Ranger. Even with its heaviest implement (probably the chipper/shredder), I doubt it's ever weighed more than 700 lbs (cargo weight). And I hardly ever trailer the chipper - mostly I transport the BCS with the rototiller or rotary plow or sicklebar mower attached. The Ranger has always felt secure in pulling and stopping (and I live in the mountains).
The BCS is a great small farms machine, but I am sorely missing a FEL, backhoe, PHD, and other tools that only a full-size tractor can have. So I recently bought a '96 F-250 diesel, and with some luck, we'll be getting a Kubota L-39 some time soon.../forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
But I'm keeping the BCS and the Ranger too (at 207k miles and all dented up, it's hardly sellable), and IMHO, it's a sweet combination when mobility and light weight is of utmost importance.
-otus
To get us back in that direction, I'll note that I've farmed for the past few years on several different plots of land with a BCS 2-wheeler, towed on a single-axle landscape trailer by a 1987 Ford Ranger. Even with its heaviest implement (probably the chipper/shredder), I doubt it's ever weighed more than 700 lbs (cargo weight). And I hardly ever trailer the chipper - mostly I transport the BCS with the rototiller or rotary plow or sicklebar mower attached. The Ranger has always felt secure in pulling and stopping (and I live in the mountains).
The BCS is a great small farms machine, but I am sorely missing a FEL, backhoe, PHD, and other tools that only a full-size tractor can have. So I recently bought a '96 F-250 diesel, and with some luck, we'll be getting a Kubota L-39 some time soon.../forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
But I'm keeping the BCS and the Ranger too (at 207k miles and all dented up, it's hardly sellable), and IMHO, it's a sweet combination when mobility and light weight is of utmost importance.
-otus