What Type of Engine Heater??

[Avenger]

Last year was cold, but no so cold that the tractor had any difficulty starting. And my process for starting and warming the engine is sound: Let glow plugs warm the combustion chamber, start engine at idle, after about a minute, bump up throttle to about 1500rpm for 20-30 minutes before working. This, in theory, should be enough to warm the oil and properly lubricate the engine and turbo. The turbo being the most important thing here. Some mornings, the temp drops way down, very cold, and I get concerned about how thick that oil is getting. I thought maybe I should install an engine heater of some sort...

Growing up on the farm, we always plugged in the trucks and tractors over night, ALWAYS. They were block heaters that came installed stock. Pretty sure they were simple freeze plug style heaters.
My new tractor, does not have such a thing, which I think is simply criminal.

I started looking to see what type of heater I should get, what would work best for keeping the engine oil from turning into sludge, and to make life easier on the engine during the first start of the day. At first, I figured I could put a magnetic oil pan heater on the bottom and that would work. Come to find out, these really dont work well. The stick on kind, silicone mats that adhere to the pan, work much better. But there is no large flat surface on my tractors oil pan, it's split to accommodate the front drive shaft. These pads apparently do not conform to that radius. The search continues...

I learned of a lower radiator hose warmer, kinda odd. You cut the lower radiator hose and install this heater in between the radiator and the engine. The heater heats the coolant and it 'naturally' flows through the engine block, keeping it warm. Videos on YouTube show that this works well, for keeping the combustion chamber warm and allowing for easier starts. But does it also keep the oil warm??? The oil that is sitting in a metal pan, with no water jackets surrounding it, hanging below the engine in the cold where the heat that rises cannot get to? I dont know. Plus, if the water is flowing slowly due to the rising heated water, it makes it way through the radiator that is designed to COOL THE WATER... seems like a waste and inefficient.

I looked at the freeze plug kind. These seems simple enough. Pop out a plug without scarring the block, insert the heater, done. But how secure are they? What plug is best for heating the entire engine? Does this also heat the oil in the sump? How much other crap do I need to remove to get to the plug?

Now, I admit, I maybe over thinking this. The oil is synthetic and the proper viscosity for the temps I'm in. The oil should be thin enough to properly lubricate the turbo and the rest of the engine when it is super cold. But wouldn't heating it, just a little, when it is 0ｰF, being a good thing?

Here is what I am thinking, bear with me. I am thinking of putting two thinner stick-on heaters on the under side of the oil pan, one on each side of the drive shaft. This should heat the oil sufficiently. Heating the engine block somehow, either by the radiator or the freeze plug (actually leaning toward the radiator hose heater, for it's simplicity in installation) And then a battery heater... might not go with that, but it couldn't hurt either. But thats 4 plugs!! I would also put them on a timer so they are not on 24hrs when the tractor is not in use. Thinking of 2hrs on, 2hrs off type of thing on a timer. Some people say, "simply plug it in, go have your coffee and when your done, the engine isnt frozen anymore." What they are saying is 'plug it in for two hours, start it, and then wait another 30 minutes for the engine to come up to operating temps before working.' Aint nobody got time for that! I'd rather keep the engine warm, run out and start it, go have my coffee and come back out to a tractor ready to work.

My tractor, unfortunately, is not under cover or in a heated shop. It's outside.
I also looked at dipstick type of heaters... nope. Not even entertaining that one.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. What are yours? What do you do?

 

[Industrial Toys]

I think the lack of block heaters is a environmental thing. My Dad's Diesel Sprinter didn't come with one. How stupid is that?

I put one in everything. I built a cam driven switch with a simple humidifier type motor. It can operate a heater 20 min on, 10 off or the other way around, because of the spdt microswitch. Great for keeping something warm on standbye without heating the great outdoors. Also, stupidly simple, robust, reliable and no programming!

 

[4570Man]

How is it an environmental thing? Engines start way cleaner with a heater vs without. Wasting electricity is the only downside I can think of.

 

[CobyRupert]

FYI: We think of heat "rising", but this is because we are familiar with hot air, which is less dense than cold air, as rising up and cold air settling down.
In a (heat) conductive metallic object like a pipe or engine block, there is no up/down.

IMHO, you're over thinking this (I can identify).

I try to plug in the block heater a couple hours before using. Time duration is more critical the colder it gets. 40 degrees and -10 degrees is a big difference.
I rarely let it warm up longer than 5-10 minutes. Tractor doesn't really come up to temp at just above idle. Instead I slow (rpm) drive it to where I'm going to be using it (another ~5 minutes)....then I use it. The idea being let it come up to temp slowly.
(IMHO) When it come to warm up versus going to work, you're going to arrive at the same temp eventually, so your just (slightly) altering the thermal expansion rates of the engine components. What the proper rate is probably a complicated question with no single answer. But generally slower is better.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Because a continuously running block heater is using up a lot of power. They seem to think that designing a diesel that starts in cold weather is the better answer.

I still have a friend that leaves his tractors plugged in all the time insisting it would use more power to heat them up again. Not understanding that they don't have a thermostically controlled switch.

 

[oosik]

Avenger - I live ten miles SW of Cheney. Very near the old town of Amber. I've never, in the 38+ years, had any type of heater on my two tractors. I DO have a trickle charger on the battery. My tractor is kept in an open carport. Don't have to brush snow off the seat........

Use the recommended oil, keep your battery charged up. It starts just fine, runs at idle for a few minuets, fully warms up as I drive to the project site.

All the fiddling around will be easily accomplished by a few minuets of idle and normal, no load, driving to any job site.

I'm simply following the recommendations found in my tractor Op manual.

 

[searcyfarms]

have always used the type that either go into a heater hose or radiator hose on all my tractors/skidsteers, my truck has one in the freeze plug,many years ago we used heat lamps that we used on live stock aimed at the oil pan, same out in the field trying to get a tractor started with a torpedo heater running off a generator and a piece of plywood - also used dip stick heater in our old LP 400 farmall, all worked good no issues iwth any of them

 

[RalphVa]

We drove diesel cars for almost 40 years. Installed a lower rad heater in the 220D because we took it to our Vermont house. Plugged it in and less it go for about 30 minutes one morning at -22 F. Glowed it for the necessary period (a lot back in those days), and it fired right up on about a 1/2 turn of the crankshaft like always (think I had the throttle pedal pushed about 1/2 way down). Ran down the road a ways, and it shut down. Let sit for 5 minutes or less. Restarted and drove a bit farther. Shut down again. Repeated process. Then fine. That was gelling of the diesel on the fuel filter which sits right next to the block on Benzes. Without the lower rad heater, it would have been this scenario that I followed on the JD 4010 on cold winters here (and on the 240D if we didn't use its block heater for 15 or 20 minutes first): glow a bit longer than the usual 20 seconds needed for that era of glow plugs, push throttle about 1/2 half open, turn key and start. Pull throttle back when it quits chugging and wants to rev up.

For tractors, the main issue is not the engine and its oil, etc., it's the very cold oil in the HST. Never gets too cold here in Virginia, but if I lived where it ducks below about 10 F regularly, I'd want an under HST heater.

For your engine, just use a good 0w30 or 0w40 oil year round. This will ensure that oil gets pumped to the OHV system almost instantly rather than "wait a bit, gotten pick up suction by heating that oil with the oil pump first to get it going" kind of thing. You might need to have a hair dryer to play on your fuel filter if it gets gelled.

Ralph

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Depends on your version of "Cold", I guess. Some parts of the country get colder than others.

Currently, my tractor sits outside all the time. Summer or winter, it's outside. Until the overnight temps get below freezing, I don't have to do anything really. Just hit the glow plugs one cycle and go. Once the overnight temps get down to zero, I do plug in my heaters. I have the block heater that my dealer installed when he received the tractor into inventory, and I have 2 stick on pad heaters, one on the oil pan, and one on the bottom of the hydro sump. I have them set up on a timer, and they run about an hour before I start it up. I still hit the glow plugs for one cycle, then start it up, unplug the power cord to the heaters, and go.

But once it gets Cold, we get to -40 F here pretty much every winter, then I still use the heaters, but run them for a few hours before I start it up, I run the glow plugs for one cycle, start the tractor, let it idle for a couple of minutes, and then run the rpms up to 1500-1600 rpms, and let it run for 10 minutes or so. I can use it right away, but I prefer to let it run a little bit first. That way all the fluids have had a chance to run through the warmer sump area for a little while before I start moving things around.

The pad heater on the oil pan and hydro sump really help once we get -30 F and colder. Sometimes it will be that temp for a high and a low temperature for days at a time. So being able to heat the oil and hydro fluid means I can pretty much just start up the tractor and go, I just prefer to give it a little run up time first. I am using synthetic oil, which helps, just prefer to prewarm it first before I start it up at those temps.

But like I said, some versions of "Cold" are different than others.

 

[RjCorazza]

I live in a relatively mild climate, but still preheat the tractor when temps get below freezing or so.
I prefer freeze plug block heaters, and have installed them on my last 2 tractors and previous truck. As a previous poster mentioned, the heat from the block will conduct to the oil and pan to some degree. My block is usually 50 degrees over ambient, with the oil pan being slightly cooler.

 

[oldnslo]

For energy concerns frost plug style block heaters are typically the lowest wattage& vast majority of heat goes directly into the engine radiating out to heat oil and intake.

Lower radiator hose are usually a little higher wattage but you now have some of the heat going into the radiator which has little value in heating the engine.

No experience with magnetic style or dipstick style

I have always maintained that with my 450 watt block heater I can run it for days and not cover the cost of one glow plug or a fraction of the cost of a starter which strains harder turning a cold engine.

 

[Mikefromcny]

I plow my driveway with my bobcat. It has a freeze plug heater. I generally plow when I get home from work. The extension cord I plug it into in on a timer. On at 3pm off at 6pm.

 

[metalbender]

Water jacket type in my 1742. Plug it in with a remote switch set up. Turn it on a few hrs before use. Also have a battery blanket for the cold climate as the battery loses a lot of efficency in the cold. The battery blanket is small, stays plugged in all the time.

 

[Mace Canute]

I think the best thing to use is an oil pan heater in conjunction with a block heater and a battery warmer. They have pan heaters in the magnetic style and in stick on pad style.

 

[denchen]

When I was in the fire service, we always had heaters fitted to the bottom hose between the radiator and engine. Not because of the cold, but sometimes in the part time stations, the engine would probably sit there all week without a call, and occasionally too many `cold` starts would eventually take out the turbo`s. Our electric heaters had thermostats in and kept the engine at about 80C.

 

[goeduck]

Make sure any magnetic stick on heater you get mates the plate up with the oil pan (or whatever). I have one where the magnet holds the plate an 1/8 inch off the surface I stick it on. Worthless.

 

[RalphVa]

You only need to run rad or frost plug block heaters for 20 to 30 minutes before you want to start them. Otherwise, you're just wasting energy going to cold air. They're similar to the heaters in hot water heaters. We've several "Tiny Titan" type under sink hot water heaters. Only need them on about 5 to 10 minutes before you need them. Had the lower rad heater in the 220D. As I said before, it worked in about 30 minutes to really warm things up at -22 F. Had the frost plug heater in the 240D. Very little time needed for it to give you a toasty cabin at startup.

Those dip stick oil heaters would do a good job of French frying the oil right around them. Think not much else. The underneath heaters for engine and hydro would work well. That's basically what they use on airplane engines in the artic at -40 or so to keep the oil warm.

Ralph

 

[Jchonline]

Last year was cold, but no so cold that the tractor had any difficulty starting. And my process for starting and warming the engine is sound: Let glow plugs warm the combustion chamber, start engine at idle, after about a minute, bump up throttle to about 1500rpm for 20-30 minutes before working. This, in theory, should be enough to warm the oil and properly lubricate the engine and turbo. The turbo being the most important thing here. Some mornings, the temp drops way down, very cold, and I get concerned about how thick that oil is getting. I thought maybe I should install an engine heater of some sort...

Growing up on the farm, we always plugged in the trucks and tractors over night, ALWAYS. They were block heaters that came installed stock. Pretty sure they were simple freeze plug style heaters.
My new tractor, does not have such a thing, which I think is simply criminal.

I started looking to see what type of heater I should get, what would work best for keeping the engine oil from turning into sludge, and to make life easier on the engine during the first start of the day. At first, I figured I could put a magnetic oil pan heater on the bottom and that would work. Come to find out, these really dont work well. The stick on kind, silicone mats that adhere to the pan, work much better. But there is no large flat surface on my tractors oil pan, it's split to accommodate the front drive shaft. These pads apparently do not conform to that radius. The search continues...

I learned of a lower radiator hose warmer, kinda odd. You cut the lower radiator hose and install this heater in between the radiator and the engine. The heater heats the coolant and it 'naturally' flows through the engine block, keeping it warm. Videos on YouTube show that this works well, for keeping the combustion chamber warm and allowing for easier starts. But does it also keep the oil warm??? The oil that is sitting in a metal pan, with no water jackets surrounding it, hanging below the engine in the cold where the heat that rises cannot get to? I dont know. Plus, if the water is flowing slowly due to the rising heated water, it makes it way through the radiator that is designed to COOL THE WATER... seems like a waste and inefficient.

I looked at the freeze plug kind. These seems simple enough. Pop out a plug without scarring the block, insert the heater, done. But how secure are they? What plug is best for heating the entire engine? Does this also heat the oil in the sump? How much other crap do I need to remove to get to the plug?

Now, I admit, I maybe over thinking this. The oil is synthetic and the proper viscosity for the temps I'm in. The oil should be thin enough to properly lubricate the turbo and the rest of the engine when it is super cold. But wouldn't heating it, just a little, when it is 0ｰF, being a good thing?

Here is what I am thinking, bear with me. I am thinking of putting two thinner stick-on heaters on the under side of the oil pan, one on each side of the drive shaft. This should heat the oil sufficiently. Heating the engine block somehow, either by the radiator or the freeze plug (actually leaning toward the radiator hose heater, for it's simplicity in installation) And then a battery heater... might not go with that, but it couldn't hurt either. But thats 4 plugs!! I would also put them on a timer so they are not on 24hrs when the tractor is not in use. Thinking of 2hrs on, 2hrs off type of thing on a timer. Some people say, "simply plug it in, go have your coffee and when your done, the engine isnt frozen anymore." What they are saying is 'plug it in for two hours, start it, and then wait another 30 minutes for the engine to come up to operating temps before working.' Aint nobody got time for that! I'd rather keep the engine warm, run out and start it, go have my coffee and come back out to a tractor ready to work.

My tractor, unfortunately, is not under cover or in a heated shop. It's outside.
I also looked at dipstick type of heaters... nope. Not even entertaining that one.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. What are yours? What do you do?

I am in a cold climate at 8600 ft, unheated garage. I just treat the diesel. I let the engine warm up for 30 min...but no block heater, no battery tender.....all not necessary IMO. I talked to the dealer about the M62 and a block heater and he said it is a waste of money. He was right, it starts right up.

 

[Avenger]

Well, thank you all. I guess I have decisions to make. Do nothing, maintain status quo and hope that I am not damaging anything when the thermometer's mercury wont rise out of the bulb, or be proactive and prevent an issue before it becomes an issue. Guess which way I'm leaning?

Though the oil viscosity shouldn't be an issue in the cold, since I use the proper weight and grade engine oil, the oil should lubricate the engine just fine during start up in the cold weather. However, if you have ever done your own oil changes, and I am guessing many have, then you know that you likely keep the new oil inside the house or in a heated area before going out and dumping it into the engine when it's freezing out. Leaving the new oil out in the cold leads to slower pouring, regardless of the weight. Since I do not have a heated shop, and my wife will be rather angry with me (an shocked) if I drove the tractor into the house, the only way to keep the oil flowing in the engine is to install a heater.

It's getting cold here. Winter has decided to rear it's ugly head and we just had snow, in September. The low today was 26F. My truck battery (which is out in the unheated garage) slowly cranked the engine. Looks like that battery will need replacement soon. Keeping the battery warm in the cold is just as critical as the oil. A new battery will work better in the cold than a 5 year old battery will, but keeping a 5 year old battery warm, should last a bit longer, and should still start the tractor in the cold.

I get that the thermal dynamics of metal work differently than air. Heating metal, the heat spreads in all directions including down. It was my questions as to how much one of these block heaters would 'reach' the metal pan and warm the oil out of its refrigerated pancake syrup like consistency. My oil pan hangs below the frame of the tractor, quite a bit. With cold, outside air able to circulate all around it, unprotected from the elements, I am guessing that heating the block wouldn't do much, if anything, to heat the metal oil pan. That is, unless these block heaters get so hot that it overcomes the cold, even to the oil pan, 3ft way and not covered by the hood of the tractor.

Now, I understand that some people live in colder climates and have never used block heaters. And that's great. I also understand that my climate is not the coldest in the world. But dropping the amount of money I did, in cash, for a piece of equipment, I will do everything I can to make sure I don't damage it if I can help it. This includes spending some time, spending some money, and heating the engine components of my tractor when it's cold. I don't care about comfort aspects (the cab gets warmer faster with a block heater) since I will let the engine come all the way up to operating temps before moving it. I don't need to drive anywhere to start work. In the winter, the only real work this tractor does is plow my driveway. I start plowing where it's parked. I also understand that some people absolutely disagree with me on this whole block heater idea, to the point of getting angry. If this is you remember: this is my tractor, in my climate, that I am spending my money on, and in your opinion, wasting my time on, and using my energy on, etc. It's not your problem. Don't get upset. You live your life, I will live mine.

So here is what I am going to do, in this order:

-Battery heater - to keep the battery from losing it's charge in the cold.
-Lower Radiator Hose (LRH) Engine Block Heater - for easier starts, and to see if the oil will also warm. I am testing this on my tractor. Warming the block, through the coolant in the block, see if the pan warms at all.
-Oil pan heater - MIGHT get this for next winter. Depends if the oil pan warms at all from the LRH heater. TBD
-Hydraulic oil heater, If I'm warming everything else up, why not?. TBD
-Heated shop - Coming soon, but not soon enough.

I will have the battery heater and LRH heater plugs on a timer, to cycle them. I understand that I probably only need to plug them in an hour or 30mins before attempting to start the engine, but I also understand that it is easier to keep something warm over time than to bring it up from dead cold to warm. Keeping the engine 'warm' and cycling the heaters, just seems to make more sense to me. Besides, sometimes running out and starting the tractor is not a planned event, like when my neighbor slides off the road and needs me to pull him out. Anyway, the plugs will be close enough to one another than I can use one of those 3-to-1 splitters, plug that into an extension cord, into the garage where the timer is. Cycle the timer maybe every hour or two when the temps get cold at the point I believe this is necessary.

Again, thank you all for the feedback. I have yet to order anything, but when I do, I will make an install video and post it to my channel. I just gotta figure out what manufacture I will go with for the two different heaters.

 

[metalbender]

Using a battery blanket is excellent. Mine is only 55 watts so I just leave it plugged in. It takes a long time for the 55 watts to warm the battery from stone cold. The block heaters are generally 4-600 watts, don't need that much on time to work efficiently. The battery has enough mass to stay warm while doing chores, plug in when done and all is well. My block heater is on a wireless remote, hit the button a couple of hrs before use.