What's invovled in getting a Patent???

[toy]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

I have been reading this thread with interest. Its' a sad thing to know that you come up with an idea on how to make a useful product that has a money making potential but the legal process is so complicated that it wouldn't be worth the effort knowing that a big company could see your idea and get a patent on your idea and sell it for a profit and nothing you can do. This seems like it would stiffel a lot of creative advancement as a lot of people would keep their thoughts to theirself, then if you do get a patent they could take your invention send it overseas to one of our free trade partners where they can steal your idea make it and send it back to sell to you and our leaders will quickly tell you that it is fair trade. For a cheap way to protect your product for the present time could you take a picture of it and have it noterized along with a description of what it does and how it is made have all pages noterized that would at least set a time frame of when you came up with the idea. I don't know if this is sensible or not but I have thought about it before and seems like a good idea . With this in your files it would establish a time for you.

 

[MadDog]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Toy: You're right that doing that would establish the time when you had come up with the idea and reduced it to practice, but that wouldn't protect you since, without a patent, anyone else would have the right to make the same device. The exclusive right to use (or license others to use) an invention is obtained only through issuance of a patent.

Of course, if people seeing or having the device still wouldn't enable them to copy it, you could just sell the finished product and keep how you did it to yourself, as a trade secret. The classic examples are the formulas for making Coke and Pepsi, which are not, so far as I know, patented, but which have been preserved as trade secrets.

Hope this helps.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

First thing. You can come up with a product. And if you're not infringing upon anyone else's patent you can make it until the sun stops shining without patenting it. But if you don't patent your idea then anyone else can make and market it too. They can't patent your idea. You're the only one that can do that. If they did get a patent on it they'd never be able to defend it.

One of the interesting things on this last patent was dealing with the patent attorney. I demonstrated and explained until I was almost at wit's end with him. He just didn't seem to get it at all. Old age and wisdom kicked in about the time I was about to lose it and I realized his inability to comprehend my position was the best thing to happen. Because when I did get across what was happening I understood he'd have it and he'd have it good.

I was proven right. He defined and expanded my concept way beyond what my wildest dreams. That's why lawyers make so much money. Because they earn it.

Coming up with the idea is the easiest part of the whole process. Refining and defining while difficult aren't that tough either. What's tough is figuring out how to manufacture and market it at a profit.

As I've pointed out, a patent only gives you license to litigate. It doesn't make your product a success. It doesn't guarantee that your idea will provide you with a nice retirement. It only gives you the right to sue anyone that appropriates your idea without compensating you for it.

One of my constant fears on the invention front is not taking the concept at hand to it's simplest and most logical end. If you stop anywhere before that point you're wasting effort, time, and money. And whoever follows up your idea with the simplest and most logical edition will be the one that makes the money and gets invited to the Oprah Show.

Let me give an example. A friend of mine along with some other investors invested over a million dollars in a patented product. What it did was replace four standard floor tiles in the aisle of a retail establishment. It had a clear cover and held advertisements for the consumer to see.

It was a great idea. But the real money maker of that concept you see everytime you go shopping in a major retailer. A simple vinyl advertisement that's applied to the floor.

Getting a product out and making money with it is very difficult. The patent process might or might not be a part of success in marketing a product. However, I see the patent process just another aspect of business. It and success in business are difficult. Both require a lot of luck, almost as much effort, and most important of all, committment.

Within the next week you're going to get to see inside the process of defining and refining a patentable product right here on TBN.

Texasdon is wanting to use my brackets for a carport-storage area he's going to build. I've provided him with the brackets and agreed to provide instruction and design assistance.

He's agreed to document and photograph the project.

This will be a transparent process wth everyone following it here on TBN seeing the good, bad, and ugly of it all. If something doesn't work Don will present me with the problem and I'll have to resolve it to both of our satisfaction.

It should be interesing. I know it will be fun. Mostly because Don and me have danced before. Do a search for "atv bridge" and you'll see.

 

[EddieWalker]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

One of the things I love about this website that I've never found on any other sites is how much information everyone has and is willing to share!!

Harvey, you cleared up my thought process quite a bit with your last post. I don't have any ambition to turn my idea into a business, nor do I expect it to make me any money. It's just a simpler way of doing what allot of us are already doing, but much simpler and cheeper to build.

The simplicity in it is what will make it so easy to copy and duplicate. Sort of like a log drag. It's simple, easy to build and impossible to defend from anybody else from copying. A cleaver guy could make a buck or two from selling plans on how to make a log drag, but it wont make him much money because allot of people will be able to see it and instantly understand how to make it themselves. This is what I've done, but of course, it's not a log drag or anything like it.

Friends think my idea is very original and I should get a patent before somebody else does and starts selling it. Friends have a way of being nice and being encouraging, but sometimes don't always see the whole picture. They also find it very easy to spend my money and manage my time. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks Harvey for your advice and sharing your personal experiences. And also, thanks for the tease on Don's project. Sounds like it should be a fun one to follow.

Eddie

 

[moeh1]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

One variant on the "we'll help you get a patent" idea. When Singer Sewing Machines started, he couldn't afford patent lawyers and all the ensuing legal cost to defend, so he convinced a firm to represent him for a stake in the company - and they were very aggressive. There are patent firms who engage in filing patent applications and also sell patent portfolios. You might be able to convince one of these to work with you to develop and sell the idea for part of the action. You would have to build a business case ( market size, saving of this invention, etc.) to gain substantial interest.

 

[keeney]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Another route to take.

If its not worth hiring a patent attroney, it still might be worth filing your own application which will be better than nothing. Worse that happens is that it never gets patented and you are out the filing fee and some time.

Say it does get issued, but because its self-writtten, it is not a very "strong" patent. Well, you said the idea is not all that valuable, so in the unlikely event you do find somebody infringing, they will likely not fight too hard. Faced with stern letter and a patent (which once issues is presumed to be valid), they will likely just stop infringing.

OR, maybe if business is good, they offer to pay a licensing fee. They do all the work of building and selling, and you get some of the profit. If such a situaion arises, don't get too greedy up front. A couple percent is reasonable. 10% of MSRP will likely be a deal killer. Even a measely $1 per copy can add up to a lot of money over the 20-year life of a patent.

 

[MadDog]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

"That's why lawyers make so much money. Because they earn it."

That is, without a doubt, the nicest thing that anyone has said about lawyers on the 'net that I can remember, either on TBN or anywhere else. I can hardly believe it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Somebody actually thinks that we do something useful and provide a service of value?? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I'll bet your lawyer returns your calls promptly. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

w_harv, you've made my day. Very occasionally, I have a client who says something like that and it's so much nicer to hear than "s***w all them exploitative shyster lawyers who hoodwink gullible juries and make it impossible for anyone to do anything without gettin' sued." .

I, and I'm sure, all other lawyers who are TBNers, thank you very sincerely for saying something that could only be said with credibility by someone who is NOT a lawyer.

 

[jimmysisson]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Mad, my now-Alzheimer's dad was a lawyer for nearly 50 years. He represented Worker's comp workers, and did well by them. Lots of letters of thanks from those injured guys. So I know people don't like lawyers, except their own lawyers when they're in need. Kinda like politicians.
My own employees can't get much from Comp these days, as the Mass laws were changed in I think 1989. Makes me grumpy to pay the high premium and on the RARE occasion someone needs to use it they get endless grief and delays!
Anyway, you're not the only one. How's your splitter coming?
Jim

 

[MadDog]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Hi Jim:
I'm sorry about your Dad. It's a tough thing to see the life of someone you love (or anyone else, for that matter) wind down like that.

Workers' Comp was supposed to be fast and dispute-free and the trade-off was that the level of compensation was modest. Unfortunately, while the comp is modest, it is no longer fast or sure. Like many reasonable ideas, it's gotten a bit contaminated over time.

Last weekend I didn't get to do anything on my splitter because I worked both days at in-laws condo again. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

But THIS weekend, we're only going to spend one day there, so I'll get to spend a day welding. I should get the two remaining gussets in and perhaps the end plates.

I've got all the other stuff on hand, now, and the next stage will be cutting and welding the anchor blocks and push-plate. I want to have it completed before I weld either its anchors or the cylinder anchors, so that I can extend the cylinder fully and set the push plate and rear anchors up together so that I know that they line up perfectly before I weld them.

If I get that far, I'll take some pics.

 

[EddieWalker]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

I think I've found my idea at the US Patent website. From the description, it does what mine does and it's even named the same. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

What really kills me is that it was file on March 9, 2006.

Hows that for timeing? I'm looking back from the mid 70's and it's a brand new patent.

I'm still trying to get pictures or diagrams of it, but I'm having trouble so far. If it's it, than I'll just use it for my own purposes and that's that.

Eddie