When is rear ballast needed with a FEL?

TresCrows · May 3, 2003

Ballast is needed in the rear when you lift the bucket and it stays put and the rear of the tractor comes up instead. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif J

OkieG · May 3, 2003

Mosey,
Just use proper ballast for your maxed out loader weight and you should be fine. If your question is in regard to your NH TC-29D. Your loader manual probably has a recommended ballast weight to use. No manual...have your NH dealer look it up for you. Dealer can't figure it out...do what ChrisW does and load your 3pt with something approximating the max your loader bucket will carry. Then, you'll be ready for whatever loader chore comes along.

I suggest mounting ballast every time you use your FEL. Never can tell when you may need to move an unexpected load of wet dirt (or something else heavy) as your project for the day develops new requirements.

OkieG

Mosey · May 4, 2003

Yesterday I tried to pick up a small amount of sand and couldn't do it without any rear ballast. I shoveled half of it out, so I had about 150lbs of sand and was able to pick it up and move, but I had to keep the bucket just above ground level. I'm really surprised that I can't even lift 150lbs without rear ballast. I think part of my problem is that the loader itself is so heavy, much heavier than I expected. The Bush Hog M246 weighs about 1500lbs compared the the New Holland 7308 at about 850 lbs. A lighter loader to start with would surely help! I think I made a mistake getting the Bush Hog M246.

Anonymous Poster · May 4, 2003

This is when one of the 3 point quik-hitch set ups will come in real handy. Have the ballast set up so all you have to do is back up to it and lift the 3 point hitch and latch on to it. When your done with your loader work just drop the ballast off.

Anonymous Poster · May 4, 2003

Mosey, your mistake is not the loader. You've got about 20 messages here strongly recommending using some rear weight. You really, really need that. It's a safety issue.

Get yourself some rear weight, and use it. You'll be wanting in the neighborhood of 1000 lbs. your loader or tractor manufaturer might have a more exact neighborhood.

But, just get some weight. Then all will be fine, & your machine will work great.

I also wonder if you are estimating the weight of sand correctly. If you stand in the bucket, do you tip the tractor over? Do you weigh more or less than 150#? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Sand, dirt, water, rocks are all very heavy & can easily look like a lot less than it is.

But anyhow, get some weight on the back of your tractor! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--->Paul

ScottAR · May 4, 2003

I concur, Sand is very heavy by volume and some ballast is needed for this situation. I never try to pick up anything with the loader without somthing on the back and I have loaded tires. The only exception would be somthing like moving leaves. Load the tires, put on a heavy implement, or both.

JohnMiller3 · May 4, 2003

...The Bush Hog M246 weighs about 1500lbs ...

Danny... are you sure...? I think this loader weight should be under 1000 lbs. for a 20-30 hp range compact... Loaders ~~ 1500 lbs. are more for large compacts and utility size range...

I think you'll find a day and night difference and your "second thought" feelings will dissipate rapidly once you bite the bullet and do the correct thing... Get Proper Ballast... you'd have the same problem had you purchased the NH 7308 loader... there would be no difference...

Get the rears filled with fluid right off the bat... this plants that tractor geometry firmly on the ground with/without the loader... you'll notice the tractor has more "grunt" pulling power will ballast, it will take that rear box blade or rear blade or plow and do it some justice...

For proper loader operation, tractor stability and for your own safety, do the right thing and get proper ballast... it's the nature of the beast and there is no way around it... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Operating a front end loader/tractor combination without proper ballast is an accident waiting to happen and very very foolish... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

John_Mc · May 4, 2003

( The main advangtage of loaded tire is keeping most of the ballast BELOW the axle, thus lowering your center of gravity.)

While keeping the ballast below the axle would lower you CG in most cases, you can actually go quite a bit above the level of the axle without raising the CG of most compacts I've seen. There seems to be a misconception by some that the CG of a CUT is at the axle. This is generally not the case. On most CUTs, there is not much below the axle, other than half of the wheels (barring any attachments or the FEL). The CG is above the axle, so filling your tires above the axle (to the top of the rims, for example) should not raise the CG from what it was with unfilled tires.

John Mc

Casimir · May 4, 2003

( "you'd have the same problem had you purchased the NH 7308 loader" )

I agree. My dealer loaned me one of their TC33Ds while they were working on my tractor. I was surprised to find out that it did not have loaded tires. I could not pick up a load of gravel without the rear wheels coming off the ground. Had to hang my box blade on it just to move and spread some crusher run.

My 1520 has loaded turfs, and I move wet horse manure and gravel all the time without additional ballast, and don't feel the back end getting light. Grabbing hold of a rooted stump with the 4-in-1 bucket can be exciting, though, even with extra ballast on the back /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Mosey · May 4, 2003

All of you are making some good points, thanks! I'm attaching a picture of what I guessed is 150lbs of sand. As for the weight of the loader, I read that number right off the spec sheet (I did round it up, the actual value is a little under 1500lbs). I was surprised too! The Woods 1012 is under 800lbs, so the M246 is much heavier than other loaders that are available for the TC29. I even called Bush Hog and asked them why it's so heavy and they said that 450lbs of that weight is the mounting kit to strengthen the tractor frame, so even when the loader is detached, I've got an extra 450lbs on the tractor.

What you folks are saying about rear ballast makes sense and I don't dispute that. I realize that I’m going to need rear ballast, but was surprised how much and that I would need it for only a couple hundred pounds of weight in the loader bucket. I'm disappointed that I've got more weight to counterbalance than I need. If I had a lighter loader to start with, I could get by with less rear weight and still be safe and not tear up the ground so much.

I'll try to do some more precise tests. I was facing downhill on a slight slope with the sand, so on level ground it might not have been so bad. I haven't tried standing in the bucket. I weight 180lbs, so I'll see what that does and see if I can bring the rear end up. I've also got some sandbags that I know the weight of, so I'll experiment with them. Don't worry, before I try to lift anything heavy, I'll attach the finish mower or tiller, which weigh close to 700lbs.