Mysfyt
Platinum Member
Don't want to hijack this thread, but how successful has Vextractor been for converting raster to vector? How 'clean' is it when you load it into CAD?
which cnc plasma
- Thread starter muddstopper
- Start date
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OP
muddstopper
Veteran Member
I can certainly see the advantage of a large table, but I dont plan on making plasma cutting a business. I can also see where if i had a machine, I could probably make a small business with it, but I am looking to retire, not start a business. I think a 2x4 or maybe a 4x4 max size would suit my needs just fine. At just 35amps, my plasma cutter isnt up to the task of really thick material, altho I am thinking about upgradeing to a larger size. I sort of figure 90% of any thing I would cut would be in the 1/2inch and mostly thinner range, but it would be nice to throw up a piece of 3/4 or 1 in material on the machine every once in a while.
OP
muddstopper
Veteran Member
I have a 4' x 8' Tracker. I paid around $9,000.00 for it. I flew to Detroit, rented a car and drove to London Ontario to Ken's house to watch one work before buying it.
I haven't even turned it on in years!
ProTable CNC Plasma Cutters by Tracker CNC
Well, since you dont ever use it, Want to sell it, I'm itching to pay you a visit.
jimcolt
Gold Member
I have had cnc plasma machines in my home shop for 16 years.....have had 3 Plasmacams a Torchmate and a few homebuilt machines. I work for Hypertherm (worlds largest plasma cutter manufacturer) (38 years!) as well. Here are some of my thoughts:
-CNC plasma cutting tables have been around for around 40 years. Until about 15 years ago....a cnc plasma was a Commercial/Industrial machine that started at about $80k. Think of anyone that processes a lot of steel, steel service centers, agriculture equipment manufacturers, shipyards, you will find these high end machines.
-With improved electronics technology and computer and software....a few "tinkerers" started to home build PC driven low cost x-y coordinate drive machines in the last 20 years. Routers, Plasma cutters and oxyfuel torches were commonly used on these machines.
-In the same time frame (the last 20 years) Plasma cutter manufacturers developed newer inverter technology cutters, eliminated the high frequency start circuitry, and started producing relatively low cost portable plasma cutters primarily with hand cutting in mind.
-With the lower cost cnc machine technology available.....and these new technology plasma cutters....a perfect match occurred. Two notable companies, Torchmate and Plasmacam sprung up. Torchmate produced "kit" machines and Plasmacam produced a standard product and started selling into this market, with the first models being shaky and a bit crude, but they could use a plasma torch to cut metal. Today these two manufactures have great products and have 10's of thousands of their machines out in the market.
-As these machines were developed, it was discovered that two important developments had to be improved on in order to make the cut quality better, and to make the typical shop guy buy them. Height control is the absolute key to making these machine cut well, and easy to learn, easy to use software is the key to an easy learning curve. No "programming", rather you draw your parts with easy to learn CAD programs....then let the machine builders CAM software convert the drawing into a cut program. Some work easier than others.
-Today Plasmacam and Torchmate are by far the largest companies in what I call the "Entry Level, Light Industrial" cnc cutting table market. There are at least 25 other manufacturers that have sprung up in this market as well. There also are a few providers of components, most notably electronics, drive motors, height control systems, cables and software that allow almost anyone with good fabricating skills the option of building their own machine.
-So, The prices in the market vary rather dramatically. I see some 4 x 4 machines advertised in the $4k range, and I see 4 x 4 machines in the $15k range. Be careful, and don't just jump at the lowest price! Do your research! Expect the cheap machines to be poorly equipped....either no height control, or worse, one that doesn't work. No software...or perhaps software that is poorly translated Chinese router or milling software. Plasma cutting, to work well, requires plasma cutting software!
-In my shop? Right now there are 4 cnc plasma tables. One of them is my primary shop table....it is an 8 year old 4 x 4 Plasmacam with their latest Design Edge software. I like this machine because: It has very easy to use, easy to learn integrated CAD/CAM software. It has a flawless height control system. It has ServoMotor drives.....which have a much wider torque / rpm curve than steppers, important because to cut 16 gauge I need to cut at 300 IPM, and to cut 1/2" I need to cut at 18 IPM. Acceleration requires torque...and many of the low cost stepper motor machines have upper speed limits of less than 150IPM, and have sluggish acceleration profiles=poor cuts on thin materials. Bottom line, my Plasmacam has been reliable for my shop use for over 8 years...by the way it is equipped with a Hypertherm Powermax85 plasma cutter....but I'm not here to advertise!
The other machines in my shop? I have a small GoTorch (made by plasmacam) mounted on a self contained fume control system....it was developed so I could ship it to trade shows and dealer open houses to demonstrate cnc plasma cutting capability. The other two I am just finishing up now.....they are custom built 2 x 2 machines (built by me), one will be at the SEMA show in Vegas the first week of November...in the Hypertherm booth demonstrating our Plasma cutters on a CNC machine, the second will be at the Fabtech show (Chicago) the second week of November, again, in the Hypertherm booth demonstrating our plasma cutters. Each of these machines were built with all parts cut on my Plasmacam 4 x 4 table, each have a hybrid filtered fume control system for indoor trade show use with little smoke.
-I am always available to answer questions about the many suppliers of these "entry level" cnc plasma cutting systems. There are a lot of varieties available, and I'm always happy to offer my advice in choosing the right one for your needs. My company does not produce these cnc tables.....we do produce Plasma cutters, water jet cutters and Fiber Laser cutting systems that are often used on cnc machines. I speak from years of practical experience....most of which are experiences in my home shop fabricating a wide variety of metal projects. Below is a pic in my shop of one of the new tables nearing completion.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
-CNC plasma cutting tables have been around for around 40 years. Until about 15 years ago....a cnc plasma was a Commercial/Industrial machine that started at about $80k. Think of anyone that processes a lot of steel, steel service centers, agriculture equipment manufacturers, shipyards, you will find these high end machines.
-With improved electronics technology and computer and software....a few "tinkerers" started to home build PC driven low cost x-y coordinate drive machines in the last 20 years. Routers, Plasma cutters and oxyfuel torches were commonly used on these machines.
-In the same time frame (the last 20 years) Plasma cutter manufacturers developed newer inverter technology cutters, eliminated the high frequency start circuitry, and started producing relatively low cost portable plasma cutters primarily with hand cutting in mind.
-With the lower cost cnc machine technology available.....and these new technology plasma cutters....a perfect match occurred. Two notable companies, Torchmate and Plasmacam sprung up. Torchmate produced "kit" machines and Plasmacam produced a standard product and started selling into this market, with the first models being shaky and a bit crude, but they could use a plasma torch to cut metal. Today these two manufactures have great products and have 10's of thousands of their machines out in the market.
-As these machines were developed, it was discovered that two important developments had to be improved on in order to make the cut quality better, and to make the typical shop guy buy them. Height control is the absolute key to making these machine cut well, and easy to learn, easy to use software is the key to an easy learning curve. No "programming", rather you draw your parts with easy to learn CAD programs....then let the machine builders CAM software convert the drawing into a cut program. Some work easier than others.
-Today Plasmacam and Torchmate are by far the largest companies in what I call the "Entry Level, Light Industrial" cnc cutting table market. There are at least 25 other manufacturers that have sprung up in this market as well. There also are a few providers of components, most notably electronics, drive motors, height control systems, cables and software that allow almost anyone with good fabricating skills the option of building their own machine.
-So, The prices in the market vary rather dramatically. I see some 4 x 4 machines advertised in the $4k range, and I see 4 x 4 machines in the $15k range. Be careful, and don't just jump at the lowest price! Do your research! Expect the cheap machines to be poorly equipped....either no height control, or worse, one that doesn't work. No software...or perhaps software that is poorly translated Chinese router or milling software. Plasma cutting, to work well, requires plasma cutting software!
-In my shop? Right now there are 4 cnc plasma tables. One of them is my primary shop table....it is an 8 year old 4 x 4 Plasmacam with their latest Design Edge software. I like this machine because: It has very easy to use, easy to learn integrated CAD/CAM software. It has a flawless height control system. It has ServoMotor drives.....which have a much wider torque / rpm curve than steppers, important because to cut 16 gauge I need to cut at 300 IPM, and to cut 1/2" I need to cut at 18 IPM. Acceleration requires torque...and many of the low cost stepper motor machines have upper speed limits of less than 150IPM, and have sluggish acceleration profiles=poor cuts on thin materials. Bottom line, my Plasmacam has been reliable for my shop use for over 8 years...by the way it is equipped with a Hypertherm Powermax85 plasma cutter....but I'm not here to advertise!
The other machines in my shop? I have a small GoTorch (made by plasmacam) mounted on a self contained fume control system....it was developed so I could ship it to trade shows and dealer open houses to demonstrate cnc plasma cutting capability. The other two I am just finishing up now.....they are custom built 2 x 2 machines (built by me), one will be at the SEMA show in Vegas the first week of November...in the Hypertherm booth demonstrating our Plasma cutters on a CNC machine, the second will be at the Fabtech show (Chicago) the second week of November, again, in the Hypertherm booth demonstrating our plasma cutters. Each of these machines were built with all parts cut on my Plasmacam 4 x 4 table, each have a hybrid filtered fume control system for indoor trade show use with little smoke.
-I am always available to answer questions about the many suppliers of these "entry level" cnc plasma cutting systems. There are a lot of varieties available, and I'm always happy to offer my advice in choosing the right one for your needs. My company does not produce these cnc tables.....we do produce Plasma cutters, water jet cutters and Fiber Laser cutting systems that are often used on cnc machines. I speak from years of practical experience....most of which are experiences in my home shop fabricating a wide variety of metal projects. Below is a pic in my shop of one of the new tables nearing completion.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
OP
muddstopper
Veteran Member
`Jim, I thought at one time you posted pics of a tracker or torchmate machine you where using. I might be mistaken, its been a while. Software is what scares the crap out of me. Take a million dollar machine and a 10cent operator and work will turn out crap. When it comes to the software, I aint even a 10cent operator, maybe just worth a penny or two. Of all the machines you have used, which software package do you feel is the easiest to learn or use.
jimcolt
Gold Member
I had a Torchmate 2 x 4 with their height control and software. The height control was marginal as it was not intimately tied into the CNC control....which often causes diving in corners and small features. Also had small stepper motors...limiting the top speed to 150ipm. The new Torchmates have a better, fully integrated height control.
From the software perspective....hands down the easiest to learn and easiest to use is the Plasmacam Design Edge. With most low cost machines you have to learn and understand machine code (often called "G-Code or M-Code") which is a series of alphanumeric commands that control machine functions, you also need to know the basics of x-y co-ordinates in order to ensure your torch location and where you want to cut parts are properly co-ordinated. The Plasmacam software completely eliminates the need to learn machine codes and x -y coordinates. You see the location of the torch at all times on the computer screen.....right where it is on your cutting bed. If you want to cut a part on a small piece of metal, simply drag and drop the part on your screen anywhere you want it to be, using the torch location to help you position if needed. Nice machine, and it has been reliable. You can see it in the previous picture I posted in the background...in 8 years the only issue I had was one of the servo motors failed. The computer screen gave an error message about the motor being bad, the owners manual (video) provided troubleshooting....I ordered a new motor ($200) , replaced it, problem solved. I run a machine torch and a magnetic breakaway on mine.
Jim Colt
From the software perspective....hands down the easiest to learn and easiest to use is the Plasmacam Design Edge. With most low cost machines you have to learn and understand machine code (often called "G-Code or M-Code") which is a series of alphanumeric commands that control machine functions, you also need to know the basics of x-y co-ordinates in order to ensure your torch location and where you want to cut parts are properly co-ordinated. The Plasmacam software completely eliminates the need to learn machine codes and x -y coordinates. You see the location of the torch at all times on the computer screen.....right where it is on your cutting bed. If you want to cut a part on a small piece of metal, simply drag and drop the part on your screen anywhere you want it to be, using the torch location to help you position if needed. Nice machine, and it has been reliable. You can see it in the previous picture I posted in the background...in 8 years the only issue I had was one of the servo motors failed. The computer screen gave an error message about the motor being bad, the owners manual (video) provided troubleshooting....I ordered a new motor ($200) , replaced it, problem solved. I run a machine torch and a magnetic breakaway on mine.
Jim Colt
OP
muddstopper
Veteran Member
With the Powermax 85, what is the thickest material you can pierce and cut, using a machine torch
jimcolt
Gold Member
Powermax85 when used with a properly functioning height control (with accurate plate surface sensing and pierce delay timer) will pierce 3/4" with no issues. Above 3/4" you can edge start (or drill a hole and edge start on that) and cut up to about 1-1/2".
Jim Colt
Jim Colt
Shield Arc
Super Member
You know several times over the years I thought about selling it. Even pulled out the water tank from under it one time. It's just so hard for me to sell things!
But I'm real good at buying things tho!
OP
muddstopper
Veteran Member
You know several times over the years I thought about selling it. Even pulled out the water tank from under it one time. It's just so hard for me to sell things!
well, guess i can scratch the ideal of a west coast trip anytime soon.
