Which revolver/pistol?

rdln · Jul 10, 2002

CC, I like my colt gov't 380 but there are better alt's

target - (paper punching) light .38 spl DEWC in my s&w 686 357 6"
(bowling pins) almost hot 357's with golden saber HPs

hunting- I've always wanted a 44mag but when it came time to buy one, my brother and a buddy had thiers and I had to differ with a Magnum Research BFR 454 casull, topped it with a fixed 4X leupold.
Next time I'll get a Freedom Arms 475 Linebaugh/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

A .410 single shot or revolver would be good for snakes but would require a holster on tractor or horse.

RoyJackson · Jul 10, 2002

"In reality I am one of the bigger is better guys myself. If I were carrying a full sized auto I certainly wouldn't waste holster space in a 9mm if I had a choice."

Boy, I want to comment on this soooooooo bad, I can taste it!!! But I won't!! Been through this (never ending) argument too many times!!!

I like 9's because ammo is cheap (relatively), easy to shoot and it'll do as good as any other caliber in a realistic self defense situation.

MossRoad · Jul 10, 2002

<font color=blue>do as good as any other caliber in a realistic self defense situation</font color=blue>

That's right. A friend of mine had some guy teasing him because he carried a 25. My friend said, "Yeah, but if I pull out that 25 and start shooting at you I bet I see your rear end real fast!". And that's probably true. The most important thing to me, no matter what firearm you choose, would be to get proper training and be familiar with the weapon. If you can't operate it on 'instinct' your probably not going to do so well in a panic situation.

CVHoss · Jul 10, 2002

Roy,
I agree with you that the 9 is not a bad cartridge. My memory seems to fade each day, but as I remember it, the decision by the FBI that the 9 was underpowered came from an incident involving several agents firing at some criminal types who were in a car. Due to a combination of factors (the 9 not being overly potent, the angle of the windshield and the hardness of the glass), the bullets were skimming up the windshield instead of penetrating it and I believe that some agents were wounded/killed. This led to the FBI's research into a more potent caliber. The first choice was the 10MM (1990) which is an "extremely" potent round but that proved difficult for the majority of their agents to control. Hence, the development of the 40S&W in 1992. They then standardized on this round. In a man-on-man confrontation, I would not feel "undergunned" with a 9mm, but I do understand the FBI's need for something with a little more penetration power (not necessarily the suspect, but what they may be in or behind).

Hoss

RoyJackson · Jul 10, 2002

"I agree with you that the 9 is not a bad cartridge. My memory seems to fade each day, but as I remember it, the decision by the FBI that the 9 was underpowered came from an incident involving several agents firing at some criminal types who were in a car."

I've read more then a few articles on that. It took place in Miami several years ago (I'm thinking '88 or '89). The bad guys had at least one shotgun and one rifle as well as a few handguns.
Most of the FBI agents were wounded...one or two killed. I believe 8 or 9 agents were on the scene and two FBI sedans.

Now, 9mm +P's and +P+ ammo wasn't available at that time. Usage of that ammo may have made a difference.
However, as the FBI is more likely to be in a gun fight, I totally agree with the decision to go to the .40. Some "elite" teams still use .45ACP (I guess the 1911 variants will never die...hope not, anyway).
I thought about a .40 when I got the Glock 19. I just didn't want to add another caliber to my list.

TresCrows · Jul 10, 2002

I think the shoot out you mention was the shoot out in Miami where the agents got into a gun battle with heavily armed bad guys. The agents had their little wheelguns -38's and maybe some 9 MM and essentially they got all shot up. I think it was the heaviest loss of FBI agents in one single event since the days of the 1930 bankrobber shootouts. The FBI then decided they needed more firepower and that eventually came in the form of the 40S&W round which has quite a bit more butt kicking power than a little 9 and high round capacity. I understand one of the agents had shot out his 6 rounds and was trying to reload from behind a car and one of the badguys just walked up and around the car and killed him. Not something we like to hear about.
I am all for our guys who uphold our constitution/laws being heavily armed--esp now--as long as they can behave themselves--Ruby Ridge, Waco, and now this cop punching a 16yo who was never armed as I understand, just perhaps mouthy and resistent. J

CVHoss · Jul 10, 2002

<font color=blue>I thought about a .40 when I got the Glock 19. I just didn't want to add another caliber to my list.</font color=blue>

Roy,
Don't know if you reload or not, but if you do you made the right choice. One problem with the 40S&W is that because of its short overall length, feedramps of the firearms chambered for it must be cut a little further into the chamber area. This leaves a portion of the cartridge unsupported by the chamber and, since the 40 operates at around 35,000psi, usually leads to a bulge/weak spot in this unsupported area. Virtually every one of my reloading manuals warn of the dangers involved in reloading the 40, especially on on the Glocks.

Hoss

knucklehead · Jul 10, 2002

Hoss - thanks for that info, because we reload and are looking at the .40 for a compact concealed carry firearm. Along with every other cartridge under the sun /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif.

Today, in an effort to indulge the ".45 Jones" I mentioned in my oldest, we went shopping. While he was trying to keep drool off the glass in front of the Colt Match .45s, I took a look at Glocks - saw that nice compact 36 in .45 - and the 21. Anyone ever read the Rogue Warrior series? I can never see the word Glock w/o remembering that dialogue he had with the Japanese specwar buddy of his where they were goofing around and calling them "Grocks" /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. After joining me in a long look at those slick plastic square-jobs, the $800-$900 Colt seemed high to him, and Grocks are now "in play"...........point being, now we are not limited to 1911-style .45s, and we are looking for info on the ever-widening circle of .45 pistols. Any comments on the Smiths? Rugers? (Mr. Ayoob loves them). Grocks seem to need no testimony, as they appear to be nearly perfect, if a bit finnicky on ammo (I've read things about that before - but have no direct experience).

Comments? And is anyone up for a reloading thread? Start one....I don't wanna seem like a one-note Wanda. And then a long gun thread?

cp1969 · Jul 10, 2002

Mark, I don't remember if this brand of .45 is mentioned, but if I had it to do over, I would get a Baer. I don't think you can buy a Colt and modify it for the price of a Baer, which is guaranteed to shoot 3" groups at 50 yards. At the time I discovered them, I'd already poured a wheelbarrow load of money into my Colt and ended up with nothing nearly as nice as a Baer.

knucklehead · Jul 10, 2002

I've seen them in magazine ads, Charles. They look great. Up there with Kimbers and Paras, right? Do you know anything about Charles Daly? Saw one for $350 today, so we wonder about quality - they make inexpensive shotguns, too. Don't know where we'll end up in this search, but we do know that more money spent now won't be regretted in 10-20-30 years. Thanks for the reminder on the Baers.