Which revolver/pistol?

[cp1969]

I take none of the legal considerations into account when I do an action job--I don't carry a gun. All I'm doing is making the gun more shootable, simply putting the action into a condition which used to be prevalent from the factory prior to slipshod cost-cutting manufacturing techniques. I'm no great shakes when it comes to doing things, but I've done 1911's, S&W K,L,&N's, Ruger Redhawks and Blackhawks, probably over thirty guns and have yet to get one wrong, so that must mean I've found it easier to get it right than wrong. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead, eh?

I find the reliance on 'professionals' to be somewhat amusing. Something has managed to instill a mindset into the majority of people in this country that doing almost anything, be it replacing a furnace or smoothing up a revolver's action, is something that's 'best left to the pros.' That's what I alluded to when I said 'few would try.' I've lived the majority of my life in an area where the nearest 'pro' was yourself--you couldn't get anybody to come out and do anything if you tried. Consequently, that imbued most of us with a confidence in our own abilities to handle our own repairs and projects, and from what I've seen, a lot of these 'pros' are amateurs masquerading.

 

[TresCrows]

No, actually the Chiricahua Nat Monument and the associated Coranado National Forset and Pedregosa Mnts area has quite a few bears and if you look on a map you will see this area is clearly in the southeast corner of Az. They are brown colored bears and plenty big enough to ruin your day, I have seen several. Not sure if you are an Arizonan but I own property in the state and have lived there several times. I think Az is the most beautiful of our states and there are bears whether you believe me or not, so there you go. J

 

[TresCrows]

Oh, a brown bear is not a grizzly, nor is a black. There are several varities of bears in the lower 48 including several local variations on the blacks and browns. I do not know of any Grizzly bears in Southeast AZ but there also quite a few cougars. I am sure in the past grizzly roamed the area and without a wild life survey in front of me cannot say it would be impossible to find one there but I have certainly never seen one, so there you go, bear expert. J

 

[TresCrows]

Well, let's look in more detail at North American bears. The common black bear which is Euarctos americanus is the smaller of our bears but is regioanlly variable in size and temperment and coloration ranging from a coal black to a dark brown. The so called brown bear I mentioned may have well been one of these and when he was coming at me he looked big enough to get my full attention. Ursus arctos, the "true" brown and Ursus horribilis the Grizzly are generally relegated to the north and northwest and Alaska, Montana also having it's share of Mr. horribilis. Near the Bob Marshall Wilderness of Montana I have encountered quite a few and also in the Glacier area of Montana, these are not as big as the grizzly I have seen in Alaska. These are quite a bit larger as in much larger than those bears I have encounterd in Az, Louisiana, Florida and Arkansas and Georgia. While doing some surface mapping along some intersting outcrops in Wyoming not far from the Teton area I also encountered Grizzly. The Atchafalaya Basin of south cental La. also has a brown variant of the black bear though in the Northern part of the state I have not seen a bear since I was a teen and he was clearly Black, this being in the area now known as the D'arbonne National Wildlife refuge which was my backyard as a child. Further, there was once panthers in that area, the last I am aware of was when I was in the 3rd grade, I saw him shot and displayed near Drew community if I recall correctly after it was reported a child had been followed by the cat, during those days we actually walked home bare footed through the thick piney woods--actually I ran 6 miles everyday to and from school, shucks now I learn them is a fancy race called a 10K you Cali boys jog while eating fruits and berries. Anyway, a hunting party went after him. I remember him as being black and being referred to as a black panther which is clearly a black variant of cougar I suppose but we dumb rednecks just knew he was big and black and looked like a cat so we jes called him a panther. All through highschool I could not figure out why the cops were always beating up on black panthers in California or how one could shoot a policeman. The Okefenokee area of se Georgia I also saw a brown colored bear circa 1970 while I was exploring an area along the Fla stateline in my VW beetle camping in the woods and comuning with nature. Actually the closest call I have ever had with a dangerous animal(s) was with feral pigs in Louisiana. So, you see there is an entire world out there beyond SoCal--I been there too, didn't see any bears. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif . J

 

[knucklehead]

Again - a pile of great info from everyone - including the Ursus lessons /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

I am partial to revolvers, myself, especially the older Smiths. Being a cheap such-and-so-forth, I also find them more affordable. I'm considering carrying an auto mostly because of comfort and concealability of the flat sides. I am aware of the extra care needed due to the different handling concerns - thanks for the info, though. I have been carrying a smaller SA .22 on an empty chamber when the 681 is too big to conceal under light clothing - I mostly carry the Smith in the Winter when I can put bulky shirts, vests or jackets on & keep them on. Maybe I should beg & borrow my buddy's Para to carry for a day and see how is rides- could be I am more sensitive to weight than shape (one of the reasons I am looking at the Taurus/Smith Ti products).

Because I reload, which I guess can be as easily vilified as gunsmithing work, I am very aware of legal concerns. I've stressed mindset in another thread, and that includes facing the court system. Partially because of legal foolishness, but more because of the value of human life & my responsibility for my family, I've had to decide that using a firearm is like giving my life, because it may involve jail time in the most extreme and unjust case. Responsibility for the family, including protecting our loved ones, is a duty (not an option) which I encourage everyone to accept, and the issue of weapon use is no different than using fire extingushers or administering first aid - all should know how, few do.

On the issue of gunsmithing - I also see the myriad of cautions in print, and have noted them. I agree that the fit and interaction of the hammer/sear/trigger is not something that is always intuitive, but I also agree that any competent crafstman could probably manage a decent polish job, and even a bit of modification, with the right knowledge. I have older gunsmithing books, and there are a lot more in our State library, that give complete instructions on some pretty big jobs - trigger work, parts making, rechambering, etc.. You have to ask what the difference is between the 50's-60's-70's and today.............either we've become a nation of mechanical incompetents (we sorta have), or it's the legal stuff (it is). Based on the cultural & legal changes to our culture (there's a new topic if I ever saw one), I'd probably have to follow suit and caution people about home gunsmithing as well. But I made the old CVA 50 caliber a lot smoother and crisper (& a little lighter) in the trigger just last Fall, with a little common sense - and an older kit that had instructions (which I kept) on how to clean up the action! Imagine that in kits today! Not!

 

[patrickg]

TresCrows, Actually I was trying to be a bit humorous, equating "Brown Bear" to Grizzly. If they were, in fact, Grizzly bear then I know a lot less than I thought and the laugh, if there is one, is definitely on me. Actually, I have traveled and vacationed and visited Arid Zona a lot over a period of decades and agree it has some beautiful scenic wonders. The Turkey National Monument, err ahh uhh I mean Chiricahua Nat Monument is one of our favorite places. Sunny Flat was one of our favorite camping spots in the Chiricahua. We liked hiking through the wind carved spires of the Chiricahua and listening to all the tales of the Indians. Read books on all this frontier history as well. Have also flown a private plane into Sedona and hiked down to Cottonwood Creek from the airport to spend a couple nights sleeping on the ground. My sis lives in Wickenberg and a retired teacher friend in Payson.

Decades ago I made a couple trips to wander the desert looking for the Lost Dutchman's Mine. ( Here is where I come back to the pistol theme.) My buddy and I, having heard the tales of private armies/security folks and strong proprietary feelings on the part of some treasure seekers and the verifiable stories of a guys body found in the area but his head turning up in another county, etc., we went hiking/camping ARMED.

At one point two riders approached us inquiring real "friendly like" where we were going, what we were doing, etc. They were both armed, one with a scoped large caliber rifle and the other with an automatic pistol with scope, not your typical cowboy stuff. We feinted ignorance and asked there advice regarding water etc, while standing such that they would not see our weapons. It was an interesting experience, They would have us believe they were out for a mornings ride from a dude ranch and were really inexperienced. The way they sat their mounts, demeanor, questions, saddle bags of supplies way beyond a one time picnic, etc. set off my alarms and later comparing notes with my buddy and wife we had all independently concluded they were some of the hirelings of one of the crazy folks thinking the Lost Dutchman's Mine to be their property. I think we successfully out performed them in our acting as they seemed satisfied and rode off.

Later comparing notes with just my buddy and not my wife we confided in each other that we had each independently been preparing to draw on them if they made any move to pull a weapon. One of the most tense situations I had ever been in up to that time. I was carrying a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 mag and my buddy was carrying a relic from WW II, a Walther P-38 in 9mm Parabellum.

Note: For those who might not be aware of the translation of the Apache word "Chiricahua", it is "Turkey". Yup, that's right the mightily feared Chiricahua Apaches were in fact the Turkey Apaches.

Patrick

 

[patrickg]

TresCrows (J), Thanks for all the bear info and personal insight. Neat stuff!! I too have seen plenty bear of various colors. Luckily the white ones were all on TV or in the San Diego Zoo. I have had to pursuade a few black bear that they didn't want my breakfast (I used to pitch baseball so I could place a fast rock pretty well.). Years ago Yellowstone was thick with bear and unfortunately were around people and their trash/food too much for the benefit of either species.

Last time I was at Glacier Nat Mon after completing an all day hike circumnavigating a lake we returned to camp in time for a Nature Talk from Mr. Ranger. Seems a couple weeks before, in the exact location of our hike, a camper was killed by a mommy Griz, cached in a tree, and fed on by her and the cubs. The bear was tracked down and killed and if memory serves still had human remains in its system. Later, the cubs, having been taught that people were food, crashed into a party of tourists/campers accompanied by some naturalist rangers on a nature hike. I think there were something like 20 in the party and the big cubs went through them like ten pins. Of course the cubs had to be destroyed as well. By lucky accident of scheduling we were there just after the "action." Gives one pause to reflect on how it could have been you. Seems the guy eaten left some tracks in the last of the snow. The Griz's tracks crossed his and turned to follow. The campers gait never changed, he never turned to look back. Apparently the Griz was quiet enough to remain undetected till it grabbed him. A sad commentary on our times is that the search for the missing camper was complicated by another camper finding the guys pack and taking it.

A buisness associate of mine had a college age daughter who went to Glacier with two friends. They tossed their sleeping bags on the ground and in the middle of the night a Grizzly grabbed one of the girls by the head and dragged her off by the head, killing her. My friends daughter was more than slightly traumatized about communing with nature.

Another of our favorite hiking spots was at a campground in the mountains near San Diego. We liked to go there for a weekend get away and hike the back country. You may have heard about the lady jogger who was eaten by a puma. Yup, you guessed it, on our favorite trail. Later another fellow from our lab had a close encounter with a puma while mountain biking at that same campground near the same trail. He held his bike between him and the cat and the cat would seem to lose interest. Then when he tried to leave the cat would be excited by his retreat (its a natural predator thing, you go, they follow.) He kept slowly progressing down the trail and after hours of torment got close to the more inhabitated area which seemed to bother the cat and was able to mount his bike and take off.

I've also had some close encounters of the Javelina kind, some self inflicted. One night I went running down a wash being traversed by javelina in order to get pictures with my flash camera. Luckily I wasn't on their "to do" list that evening. Only puma I ever encountered up close was in Mexico on a backpack up in the San Pedro Martir mountains in Baja California to do some fly fishing and just get so far back in the woods that we wouldn't see another person for a week or so. This kity went up on a rock outcrop across the creek from us, about 75 ft + or -. I didn't see it, nor did my buddy, but my wife did, just a bit before sunset. Seems for the last few hours of walking there were huge puma tracks in the trail and my buddy and I were walking on them so my wife wouldn't notice and be frightened (you don't take guns into Mexico - see, the pistol connection) She mistook the puma for our fawn colored great dane but when she took a step back to get her camera to get a picture she tripped over the dog who was lying just behind her. When she looked up the "dog" (puma) was gone.

Final bear comment for now: You may have heard about "bear bells" to be worn so that you don't accidently surprise a Griz as Griz might eat you but black bear aren't so inclined. A tenderfoot asks, how do you know when there are Griz about and is told to look for bear sign (bear poop) when in the woods. He asks how do you tell if it is black bear sign or Griz sign and is told that its easy to tell the difference. Just look close and if there are bear bells in it then it is Griz.

Patrick

 

[TresCrows]

Yes, flying into Sedona is a great flight. I had a friend fly up a box canyon not far from that area and he did not fly out. His crash sight is only a few feet from Gerald Vultees 1930's crash site where there is a monument installed in the stone for him.
Yeah, the reason I carry on about bears is because I am afraid of them, some people fear spiders, some thunderstroms and some snakes etc or sharks or whatever but me--it is bears so thus I want a 50 caliber bear pistol. The 454 just is not enough to satisfly me--I want a smokin, honking big 50 caliber with some big velocity behind it in a big single action Ruger I can afford. That is what I want for bear country.
It was raining, I was hiking alone for several days, near Glaicier and about. I came through a thickly wooded area with lot's of winter blow down that had not been reached if ever by clearing crews. I was tired as I moved up the so called trail always looking for a place to spend the night. I came through a thicket and as I rounded the bend--there they were---huge Grizz tracks made more impressive by the mud mushed up---and they were filling with water--get the significance? /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif --I quickly reversed direction and decided enough was enough--I hiked nearly 18 miles out of there--there was to many bears and I did not have a gun, a situation I have never put myself in again. J

 

[patrickg]

TresCrows, Yeah, J, I got it...filling with rain. If it was raining hard that was even more scarry. I have seen Griz in Alaska, at a distance, a comfortable distance, just the way I like it. I am not a Crocadile Hunter wanna be... If it can literally eat me and would if given the chance I give it a wide berth if possible. Doing night dives and tracking my partner by the light of the glowing plankton in his turbulence and wondering if the "torpoedos" that were making near Kamikaze runs on us were "for sure" seals or if there was a "jaws" among them is about as exciting as I ever need.

The nature programs I saw and things I read indicate that black bears (in whatever actual color) aren't the docile Teddy many think them to be and that if one is actually after you it is to eat you. That is a sobering thought when you are where the bear lives but the rules prevent you from carrying protection. I like to practice "safe hiking" and have read of folks who are alive by virtue of being armed where arms were prohibited. I sometimes settle for LARGE "BEAR RATED" PEPPER SPRAYS.

So you want a .50 cal Ruger for a bear gun. I was just joking with Ozarker when I said something about a .50 cal BMG semi-auto pistol but I guess that would get the job done with the right projectiles against any bear on the planet. Might require a two handed grip to get you back on target for effective followup shots, should they be required. I mentioned in a previous post that my "bear" gun was a short but legal barreled 3 inch mag 12 ga pump with extended tubular mag and pistol grip. I carry a LARGE pepper spray which has been tested and found effective with Griz and would recommend that where protection might be needed and guns have been outlawed (parks and such).

Sedona... Yes the little strip on the mesa. It is like making a carrier approach but it isn't moving forward or going up and down but still can give you a little excitement. The first time in there was with an engineer buddy I worked with and we were in his plane so he was in the left seat. He made a decent approach, was lined up on centerline, good sink rate, headed for "the numbers" and then whammy a big down draft pushed us down and we were looking at the side of the cliff we were headed toward instead of the runway on top. Full throttle, full flaps, ease back on the yoke and try to decide if it is better to try to make a sharp turn or suck it up and over the edge. We made it up and over then continued on to a good landing as the strip is quite long to accomodate the poor performance for engines in the thin air of high density altitudes. Inside, a guy says, "first time here?" Turns out that when the wind is strong enough and from the "right" direction there is a strong downdraft caused by turbulence from a mountain. This downdraft is just out beyond the end of the mesa. As the strip is soooooooo long "smart" pilots do not extend their downwind leg beyond the end of the mesa but instead turn base and then final over the runway and have way more strip left than needed to set down. In later trips we looked smarter. Sorry about your buddy. You know the old pilot/bold pilot story. NEVER NEVER NEVER fly into a place without an exit strategy, even if the exit strategy is a hammer head stall with a 180 degree turn. A litle dicey to start doing aerobatics in a canyon but beats the second alternative, flying into cumulus granite.

Patrick

 

[Buster57]

I like Ruger 45 LC and DA 357 with 6" barrel. I have a friend in the Marines who uses either as a back up while on shore patrol in Boston Harbor. He uses a Colt 45 Combat Commander to get his point across. He is very well known (something to do with CMO?) so he carries what ever he wants.
I have a Glock 45 and 9mm. I think the Colt is a better pistol in the big caliber, but the Glock is easier to maintain. Both Glocks are pre-Bradey