Which revolver/pistol?

CVHoss · Jul 20, 2002

Mark,
I love the 45 Colt cartridge. It's what I use in Cowboy Action Shooting. It's easy to reload and very versatile. Just remember that while the Contender is probably one of the strongest handguns out there, the 45 Colt is NOT a 44 Mag. and you shouldn't try to make it one. The 45 in standard loadings is capable of taking deer but you have to work within it's range and energy limitations. The great thing about a Contender is that if you want a serious deer handgun, you can always just purchase another barrel in a more potent cartridge. For reloading, I tend to buy whatever is cheapest for plinking and practice, but for hunting and serious long range target shooting, I use nothing but While I've never hunted with the 45 Colt, their <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/caliber.cfm?Type=handgun&Caliber=.45>300 Gr. JSP should be a good performer on deer sized game at the appropriate ranges.

As far as bullet casting, I did it 20+ years ago when I first started reloading as sources of lead bullets were almost non-existent. With the advent of Cowboy Action Shooting, lead bullet casters are everywhere. Given what you can buy high quality lead bullets from some of these for, I wouldn't mess with casting for a pistol cartridge. If you'll go to the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sassnet.com/pages/affiliatedclubs.html>SASS Club Page</A> you can click in your area to find some SASS affiliated clubs and their contact numbers. You might try contacting some of these guys and ask where they are getting their bullets in your part of the country. If you don't have any luck, or if you just want some info anyway, send me an email and I'll send you web sites for several lead bullet manufacturers that I have done business with.

For some good target shooting rounds, I like to use <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hodgdon.com/>Hodgdon's</A> Titegroup. A problem with the 45 Colt is that it was designed for use with Black Powder. Most all of the smokeless powders leave a large amount of air space in the cartridge. Titegroup is very position insensitive. Rounds run through my chronograph usually have spreads of <40 fps variation. You can download Hodgdon's in pdf form or their <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pdf.htm#top>Basic Data Manual at these links.

About the best bet for brass is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.starlinebrass.com/>Starline Brass</A>. Their price, which includes shipping, is currently $101.00/1000 or $58.00/500. This is the cheapest I've found anywhere and they make very good, high quality brass.

I reload and shoot over 1500 rounds of 45 Colt ammunition each month so if you think there is anything I might be able to help you out with, don't hesitate to drop me an email.

Have fun,
Hoss

cp1969 · Jul 20, 2002

I can suggest a couple of loads for the .45 LC. I've been reloading it since '73. (19, not 18).

For everyday factory load replication, 8.5 gr. Unique under a 255 gr cast RNFP for about 850 fps. The RNFP is really only for visual distinction from the next load. I'd rather use a 250 SWC for everything, but like even more to be able to tell at a glance which load I've got.

A flatter shooting hunting load is 20.0 gr 2400 under a 255 gr. cast SWC and a regular, NOT magnum primer. It clocks at a little over 1100 fps. This is above the listed load in the Speer manual but they used a magnum primer and jacketed bullet. This load hits as hard at 100 yards as a factory load does at the muzzle, and few things can absorb a point-blank .45 LC round without getting the wind knocked out of them. For elk I would work up a 300 or 325 grain SWC or truncated cone load.

I can vouch that these are safe in my Ruger Blackhawk. You can probably soup up the hot load even more in the Contender, but I don't see what purpose it serves. Buy a .44 barrel if high velocity is your goal. That's the beauty of the Contender--you're not stuck with one caliber.

I have tried about every load under the sun in the .45 and have come to these conclusions: Don't use anything faster than Unique. I had a very light load of WW231 try to blow up my .44 Redhawk. I'd load the ammo on a Dillon 550 which is virtually impossible to get a double charge of powder and had one round literally sound like a CANNON when it went off and kicked harder than a factory .44 round. I was standing and it actually rocked me backwards a bit. I had to drive the case out of the cylinder with a hammer and a piece of 3/8" drill bit. Thank goodness it was in the Redhawk because I think it would have taken the Blackhawk apart. I'd used 231 in both calibers with no problems up to that point, but there is a phenomenon wherein powders that don't come anywhere close to filling the case can sometimes detonate rather than burn. I took the rest of the loaded rounds apart expecting to find one with no powder in it, but didn't. Beware of fast powders in big pistol cartridges.

Good luck with the Contender, I think you will really enjoy it. It is a very good choice, if for no other reason than it promotes aiming instead of the speed at which a magazine can be emptied.

edit: light load is 8.5 gr. Unique, not 8.0 as I posted earlier. Don't know what I was thinking about, as usual.

cp1969 · Jul 20, 2002

CVHoss, a fellow named Carrol over at Sierra (I took a tour of their plant) told me that the 300 gr. .45 bullet is a Silhouette bullet and wouldn't expand in deer--so of course, I bought some because that's what I want. It has an enormous flat point and although I've never used it on game, as long as it doesn't expand, looks to me like it would be extraordinary on elk or bear. BTW, with that bullet, you probably want to use something slower than 2400, like H110, WW296, or AA9.

I, too, will vouch for Starline brass. I think they're a division of Sierra, as they're side-by-side in Sedalia, MO.

CVHoss · Jul 20, 2002

cp1969,
told me that the 300 gr. .45 bullet is a Silhouette bullet and wouldn't expand in deer

That's kind of a strange statement as the 300 gr. is a Sports Master bullet and in describing that line on their web site, they say: Sports Master® handgun bullets are engineered to provide consistent, reliable expansion over a wide range of velocities.

Have you ever dug one out of a dirt bank to see how it reacted?

If you want a non-expanding bullet, you might contact <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.laser-cast.com/index.html>Oregon Trail Bullet Co.</A>. Their bullets have a BHN of 24. Don't know if they still do it or not but you used to be able to call them and get a "sample" (around 10 bullets) so you could see how they performed for you. I've dug some of these out of dirt backstops that I think could be cleaned up and reloaded again. I don't use them anymore for CAS because of the cost. They're much more expensive than most any other lead bullet out there, but if you want a lead bullet that you can drive at near jacketed bullet velocities, it might be a good choice.

Hoss

cp1969 · Jul 20, 2002

Thanks for the info, although I cast my own, I will check them out.

I wonder if Sierra makes more than one 300 gr. .45 bullet? It has been five or six years since I took that tour and maybe things have changed.

I have never recovered one of the 300 gr Sierras. I have a quart canning jar about half full of other recovered bullets, though. These were ones that were unusual for one reason or another. There is a lot to be learned by digging around in the dirt when you're finished shooting, as you know. Dirt won't approximate what a bullet will do on game, but it will give 'relative' performance info.

I bought the 300 grainers at a time when I thought I was going elk hunting and felt that I needed something heavier than the 255 SWC, but that trip fell through and I never finished working up the load.

CVHoss · Jul 20, 2002

I have a quart canning jar about half full of other recovered bullets, though.

Know what ya mean. In Cowboy Action Shooting, we get into some pretty "spirited" discussions about how slow is too slow. The attachment is a bullet I recovered (NOT mine) after it had hit a steel target. Don't think he had a whole lot of powder behind that one./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Hoss

knucklehead · Jul 20, 2002

Thanks, Hoss & "CP" - we brought it home - along with a .22 rifle that I bought outside of the shop from a guy who was trading - and decided to put the .223 barrel on and try it. Wow - what a blast from the 10" barrel - literally! We wanted to shoot the 45, but it was too much to carry out back, and we really wanted to check out the .223. The 45/410 has a fixed "mini buckhorn" type rear sight, and a bead front. We are going to take off the vent rib and see what's under there for tapped holes, and think about adding standard sights. Or, as mentioned, get a 44 mag barrel. But I've wanted to load the 45 for a while. I was thinking something under 10 gr of Unique for the 45. They have boxes of Pine State (local caster) 200 gr RNFP & 255gr SWC for loading, and I was glad to see that, as it seems to fit the loading I was envisioning for the barrel.

Sierra does make two 300 gr 45's, but one is 0.458 for the 45-70. This is from my 1998 poster/flyer. And thanks for the reminder on primers - I have large pistol primers which I used in my .44 Blackhawk with good ignition. Regarding detonation, there is a school of thought that the low volume of powder spreads out in the case and rapid ignition results from a higher surface area being exposed to the primer flame. Wadding would solve that, as would tipping the revolver "North" before each shot - but I'd rather have the wadding.

Do you guys stick to the carbon pistol dies? I have been where I've had a choice. Thanks for the good info. I like that Coleman stove & cast iron pan idea.

CVHoss · Jul 20, 2002

Mark,
Carbide dies (or Hornady's Titanium nitride dies) are worth the extra money. Whenever you have a choice, go for them. Besides eliminating the need to lube cases the carbide ring is so hard that dirt or grit can't get pressed into it and thus scratch cases. I've seen cases get scratched so bad that they will eventually split on the scratch line.

I looked back through all of your posts on this thread and I know you reload but I don't see anything about how long you've been reloading. I'd like to give you a little advice on a couple of things, but if you've been reloading for a long time you've probably already heard it and don't want to hear it again.

Hoss

cp1969 · Jul 20, 2002

I won't use anything but carbide dies on pistol cartridges. I loaded many, many rounds using steel dies, a lube pad, and a single stage press, which I think everyone should use at first. There is no better way to verify the level of powder charge than to look at a loading block full of charged cases prior to seating bullets--I never had so much as a hang-fire when loading this way. But start with carbide dies. There is nothing to learn by lubing cases; it's just a pain in the rear.

Kaliburz · Jul 20, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

The entire idea of begging the government for a permission slip to bear arms for defense is an unconstitutional infringement. A CCW is nothing more than a permission slip. It strips the people of the right to bear arms and turns it into a privilege granted by a benevolent ruler, the government.

The only state not currently violating the 2nd amendment is Vermont where government permission is not required to bear arms for defense.

<hr></blockquote>

Interesting view about the CCW....