Which tow vehicle to buy?

[HGM]

It should be a no-brainer; wait and get an '07 F350 with the vastly improved 6.4 diesel. First, I have an Expedition with the 5.4. It can't pull itself along a highway that has any hills without constantly downshifting! Hooking up the kind of weight you are talking about behind a 5.4 liter would be a very, very sad situation. If you go up any hills, you'll have bicycles passing you! On the 6.0 Ford diesel...er,...uh,...I can't think of one single positive thing to say about it. If you can't wait for the 6.4 (it should be a hint to you that the 6.0 diesel didn't even have but a 3 year run), buy a used one with the 7.3 diesel.

Myself, since I pull heavy all the time, I had no choice but to go with the Cummins and spend some serious bucks on a bulletproof aftermarket tranny to go with my juiced Cummins.

Couple of things to remember if you do go with a 6.4L(even though its not a listed option)... The 6.4L will be an '08 released EARLY '07.. So, if you are inclined to go that route for the specific reasons or getting a 6.4L, make sure thats what your getting(shouldnt have to say that, but you never know whos listening )

As for the 6.0L, I've mentioned it in the past, but its not going away because of problems.. That may be conveniant, but not the reason why.. The 7.3L would not pass '04 emissions.. The 6.4L was not ready(common rail fuel system), so the 6.0L was designed to fill this time slot for emissions purposes.. The 6.4L was needed to pass '07 emissions.. The '07 currently being produced have '06 6.0L engines in them to meet this critera, the 6.4L will be its replacement for emissions purposes.. Obviously, everyone is expecting the 6.4L to be flawless(as much as possible) to help counter the reputation that the 6.0L has gotten(some deserved, some not)..

Dargo,for what you wanted and have done, you made the right choice.. The Cummins is awsome, no doubt..But not everyone needs a 1000ft lb engine to tool around in.. I know you have some kind of background with these things and see some of the failures, but trust me, I see my share and can promise(anyone who cares) that a large number of these failures are from neglect and abuse(ie: chips, programers, other modifications, oil change intervals,fuel filter intervals, overloading, excessive idle times) that this engine cannot handle.. In stock form with proper maintenace, these engines can go a long way... I'm just adding this point, again, to give a different perspective from the anti 6.0L group.. You may notice that several guys here have 6.0L's and are happy with them..

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I just can home from the dealer and it wasn't a good trip. The 350 I was interested in was an ROR which means it's a lemon. It has had tranny issues. While I was there I took an 07 350 DRW PSD for a spin and loved it. However the 50k price tag was alittle much. The 250 5.4 is being brought over from the sister dealership tomorrow for a road test. I'm not too optimistic however.
I took a gmc with the duramax and allison for a ride and loved it but the dealer was unwilling to move and was riduclously low on the trade. There is one more 04 250 PSD on the lot I haven't test drove but I really don't want to got that route. I think I maybe stuck with the 07 250 gasser. It will only be for a couple years(2-3 max) and as much as I will need to tow it may just be perfect. It's the 10400gvw 4:10 ratio. I don't think much of the immediate towing will be interstate most likely town roads. Lets talk Dodge for a minute. A few years back I wouldn't even consider a dodge but it seems they've fixed there flawed vehicles. I know the cummins is bulletproof but what about a 3/4 ton hemi? Could this be the next best thing to diesel? Any new Dodge owner (05 or newer) that could shed some insite.

Thanks
Matt

 

[Dargo]

I know you have some kind of background with these things and see some of the failures, but trust me, I see my share and can promise(anyone who cares) that a large number of these failures are from neglect and abuse(ie: chips, programers, other modifications, oil change intervals,fuel filter intervals, overloading, excessive idle times) that this engine cannot handle...

Amen! Amen! Amen! I've seen so many people with diesel pickups that swear that they take the absolute best of care with them to only find out later that they change the oil every 25k..or so.

 

[JESSE1]

There were quite a few issues with the early '03 6.0 PSD's but most of the problems had to do with electronics, mainly sensors. The major problems were mostly ironed out by the '04's, with the latest engines being very good. I have an '04 F-350 Dually with the 6.0 and 5 sp torqshift trans and it has been very trouble free. Very powerful and fast, IMHO it doesn't need any help from a tuner. If this truck can't move it, you need a bigger truck.

 

[bx23barry]

I have a '05 f150 with a 5.4 and while I only tow 5000-7000 lbs (two horse trailer, little tractor or jeep on 16' car hauler or 28' travel trailer) I can pull donner at 55. Sure it winds up and I've installed a cold air kit, cat back system and reprogramed the computer. Not a powerhouse but it runs pretty good and I usually keep up with my brothers cummins that has a banks kit (of course he gets twice the mileage I do).

 

[rback33]

I have a '05 f150 with a 5.4 and while I only tow 5000-7000 lbs (two horse trailer, little tractor or jeep on 16' car hauler or 28' travel trailer) I can pull donner at 55. Sure it winds up and I've installed a cold air kit, cat back system and reprogramed the computer. Not a powerhouse but it runs pretty good and I usually keep up with my brothers cummins that has a banks kit (of course he gets twice the mileage I do).

Get Dodge or 7.3 Ford... I love my current Dodge and loved the ford I ahd before that....

 

[Dmace]

I know the cummins is bulletproof but what about a 3/4 ton hemi? Could this be the next best thing to diesel? Any new Dodge owner (05 or newer) that could shed some insite.

Thanks
Matt

I have an 03 Ram 1500 4x4 HEMI and that engine is incredible. 5.7 liters 345ci - 345 hp and 375 lb. ft of torque. I towed a 3800# car on a 2000# trailer 4 hours up Maine on I95 with some decent hills in the north. Left it in overdrive and it only downshifted a couple of times. I averaged 13.2 mpg and that was crusing at 80 mph. A 3/4 ton 2500 with the Hemi would be a great daily driver / tow vehicle in my opinion. You can get it in 5-speed or auto too! Unloaded I get 16-17 mpg. Definitly worth looking at for your needs. Plus the 05 and newer models are available with MDS (Multi Displacement System) for better gas mileage.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

As for the GM 6.0 vs the 5.4 the ford has 365 ftlbs and the GM 360. And the Ford makes that a lower rpm.

Matt

 

[jmt1271]

I just can home from the dealer and it wasn't a good trip. The 350 I was interested in was an ROR which means it's a lemon. It has had tranny issues. While I was there I took an 07 350 DRW PSD for a spin and loved it. However the 50k price tag was alittle much. The 250 5.4 is being brought over from the sister dealership tomorrow for a road test. I'm not too optimistic however.
I took a gmc with the duramax and allison for a ride and loved it but the dealer was unwilling to move and was riduclously low on the trade. There is one more 04 250 PSD on the lot I haven't test drove but I really don't want to got that route. I think I maybe stuck with the 07 250 gasser. It will only be for a couple years(2-3 max) and as much as I will need to tow it may just be perfect. It's the 10400gvw 4:10 ratio. I don't think much of the immediate towing will be interstate most likely town roads. Lets talk Dodge for a minute. A few years back I wouldn't even consider a dodge but it seems they've fixed there flawed vehicles. I know the cummins is bulletproof but what about a 3/4 ton hemi? Could this be the next best thing to diesel? Any new Dodge owner (05 or newer) that could shed some insite.

Thanks
Matt

I have an 06 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 with the Hemi and 5 speed auto. I am very impressed with the engine/trans. I tow (1-2 times a month) an 18' trailer that weighs around 7K with the 3520 on it. It pulls it literally effortlessly. Given I live in pretty flat ground, but it handles the hills I do have with NO probs. Couldny justify the diesel, as its my wifes daily driver. Dodge was at the BOTTOM of my list when I was test driving, UNTIL I drove it. It was at the top then. Test drive one and give it a chance. I would upload a pic, but this forum makes it too difficult. The power of the Hemi and the looks of the Ram sold me.

 

[jmt1271]

Think I got it.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

Thanks for the reply JMT. I really need to stay in the 3/4 -1 ton class. The 1/2 tons are great and can pull some good weight but I need a heavier duty truck. One for the stopping power and heavy suspension and two for the larger towing capabilitys. I've heard alot of good feedback on the dodge products. I myself am a Ford man but I really like the GMC 2500hd duramax and allison tranny. If Ford had stuck with their 7.3PSD It would be a no brainer. But I think I've(with the invaluable feedback from you folks) weighed my options. And here they are: I really don't want to buy used, people who sell newer used vehicles take a large loss (gererally) so I tend to believe used stuff has issues because lets face it if you love your truck and it runs great your not trading it in just to get screwed on the trade in value. Second I'd love to get a 07 350 DRW PSD crew with all the options. And in the near future I may NEED to go that route. But I simply can't afford a 50K truck that is going to depreciate as soon as I take ownership. I really don't want to go with the 5.4 triton engine but I can't afford the PSD and I don't want the v10. So I haven't too many options. However the 07 250 is equipped with the tow command system( I really wanted) a 4:10 rear end X-cab,long bed and tow package (heavier suspension,coolers,hitch,etc) So I feel for the next two years or so this truck will be the best of both words. It's New has a 5 year warranty, will tow anything I need too and is priced right.


Thanks
Matt

 

[jmt1271]

The Ram as equipped is rated to tow 9300lbs. It handles my 7K without issue. How much are you towing?

 

[HGM]

I really don't want to go with the 5.4 triton engine but I can't afford the PSD and I don't want the v10. So I haven't too many options. However the 07 250 is equipped with the tow command system( I really wanted) a 4:10 rear end X-cab,long bed and tow package (heavier suspension,coolers,hitch,etc) So I feel for the next two years or so this truck will be the best of both words. It's New has a 5 year warranty, will tow anything I need too and is priced right.


Thanks
Matt

Can I ask why you dont want the V-10? If its priced similar and you dont mind the fuel economy of a stressed 5.4L, why wouldnt you want the 5.4 with 2 more cyl's? The 6.8L V-10 is a great option if you dont want the diesel, VERY reliable and capable... Its based on the 5.4L, so you're already familiar with it..

 

[jmt1271]

I had a V-10 in an Excursion(they are 3/4 ton). It was sufficient, but power to weight, you are probably better off in a half ton with 5.4.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

A half ton is just not enough truck for frequent hauling duties. Again just because a truck can tow the weight doesn't mean it can handle it. HD trucks have much heavier frames,suspension,brakes,etc. As for the V10, a coworker has one and for a daily driver it's really really bad on gas. Around 7mpg. I'll be driving the 5.4 daily and I know it will get decent mileage.

Matt

 

[tractorsanmore]

I have a 2004 f350 4x4 drw dump truck with a v-10 and 4.30 gears and get better than 7 mpg . It weighs 8300 lbs empty . He must have a lead foot , lol...

 

[HGM]

A half ton is just not enough truck for frequent hauling duties. Again just because a truck can tow the weight doesn't mean it can handle it. HD trucks have much heavier frames,suspension,brakes,etc. As for the V10, a coworker has one and for a daily driver it's really really bad on gas. Around 7mpg. I'll be driving the 5.4 daily and I know it will get decent mileage.

Matt

I'd askk around a little more about that economy... I dont believe they are that bad unloaded... He just may have something wrong with it... Just my opinion, I dont have one, nor have any experience with them besides working on them and talking to others that have them..

 

[Dmace]

Thanks for the reply JMT. I really need to stay in the 3/4 -1 ton class.

I still wouldn't rule out the Ram 2500 yet. At least drive it and see/feel the difference. The Ford 5.4l is weak compared to the HEMI, I test drove both before getting the Mopar. For just 300cc more engine, you get more power, better mileage and most importantly a flatter torque curve which makes all the difference in towing.

The 3/4 ton Dodge is rated for 13,100 lbs in a 4x4 with the 4.10 rear axle and Hemi 5.7l V8.
Dodge - Vehicle Lineup

The 3/4 ton Ford is rated for 11,100 lbs in a 4x4 with the 4.10 rear axle with the 5.4l V8.
Ford Vehicles: Super Duty - Specifications

That is 2,000 lbs difference.

The Ford as slightly higher payload at 2900lbs to the Dodge's 2690lbs.

These numbers are right from the manufacturers websites, see links.

I only got the 1/2 ton because the most I tow around is my race car.

 

[EddieWalker]

For towing anything of any weight, you'll really appreciate those duel rear wheels. It makes a huge difference in handleing and stability.

How long do you plan to keep this truck? Using a 3/4 ton truck to work so hard will really wear it out allot faster than the one ton ever will. There is more to it than just which enigine you get. The entire driveline, suspension and most importantly, the brakes on the one ton will be far superior to the 3/4 ton. It doesn't matter which make you guy.

Another thing to consider is that you don't have the land yet. When you do buy it, you'll find it's a huge asses to be able to haul as much as you can.

If it was me and I could afford a new truck, I'd buy a one ton Dodge diesel with a flatbed. The rest of the options are just a bonus.

Eddie

 

[Donnyj]

2 words about the 6.0 diesel............STAY AWAY. I really don't believe that Ford is dropping that engine for anything other than repair problems. There is a reason that a very high number of Ford dealers nationwide are under some sort of warranty audit review from Ford because of high number of repairs. Alot of dealers now are refusing to work on the diesel and just sending them down the road to another dealer so there warranty numbers don't increase anymore. Techs are gettting shafted left and right over this engine. At least 3 vehicles a week are getting the cabs lifted off and headgaskets replaced at our shop. We have replaced the factory headbolts with A.R.E. studs and found good success with that modification. The studs do a much better job than the standard headbolts. Turbo after turbo after turbo issues. Oil leaks, egr concerns one right after the other. Don't walk away from the 6.0...... RUN!!!