Who actually makes the tractor and whose engine and transmission does it carry?

[CalG]

Just be glad you are not looking into the origins of a Lamborghini Runner

An Italian Tractor, Made in INDIA, with a Japanese Mitsubishi Engine. Marketed by a German outfit, D-F, "through selected dealers world wide".

Whee Haa.. It's a big WORLD!

 

[Reddogs]

What is the sense of even putting this list together? Is it going to tell us what engines are best? Probably not. Is it going to change as times go by? Probably. Is it going to help you find parts you probably wont need? Maybe, but probably not. Is it going to be accurate by getting information from some people are mostly guessing? Probably not. Is it going to help you choose a superior tractor? Only if you convince yourself it will. Sorry, I miss the point.

Well I know they have them, here is one I came across on what they put the JD 790 Yanmar 3TNE84 engine into... Yanmar Industrial Engine Parts: Deere Equipment

 

[crazyal]

Just the way the world works now. Years ago when I installed glass for a living I had a job at a local factory. The name of the company sounded like they built boats but actually they made soap. Once inside the scent of the soap was powerful. Within 15 minutes you couldn't smell it anymore. When I was leaving they gave me a few "samples". They made specific items for every major brand on the market. At the time I would have thought that competing brands would use different contractors to make their products but nope. In the end if you can make a smaller but still nice profit by letting someone else do the hard work of making it why not?

 

[Torvy]

Just the way the world works now. Years ago when I installed glass for a living I had a job at a local factory. The name of the company sounded like they built boats but actually they made soap. Once inside the scent of the soap was powerful. Within 15 minutes you couldn't smell it anymore. When I was leaving they gave me a few "samples". They made specific items for every major brand on the market. At the time I would have thought that competing brands would use different contractors to make their products but nope. In the end if you can make a smaller but still nice profit by letting someone else do the hard work of making it why not?

Truth. My wife used to work for one of the major breweries. They brewed and bottled a lot of other brands. Different ingredients and recipes, but on the same lines with the same crews. Some brands no longer even have facilities to bree their own.. it is all contracted out. Economies of Scale.

 

[Cougsfan]

Truth. My wife used to work for one of the major breweries. They brewed and bottled a lot of other brands. Different ingredients and recipes, but on the same lines with the same crews. Some brands no longer even have facilities to bree their own.. it is all contracted out. Economies of Scale.

The food industry is the same way. If you think the product is produced by the company on the label, think again because you are most likely wrong.

 

[gstrom99]

Will drive you crazy trying to figure that out;I know the most American made car is a Honda;and truck is a Toyota!
I believe Kubota at least makes all the own parts.

I think my '19 Jeep Cherokee won the "most US componet" title with like 90% US parts, if I remember my window sticker correct. Who knows now.

Okay, back to the original topic...

 

[Username Taken]

Truth. My wife used to work for one of the major breweries. They brewed and bottled a lot of other brands. Different ingredients and recipes, but on the same lines with the same crews. Some brands no longer even have facilities to bree their own.. it is all contracted out. Economies of Scale.

Yes, but my main question would be in parts. Are parts still readily available for the ubiquitous, untamed YanDeere? I suspect so, Mr Green has always been pretty good about maintaining good parts supply. You might not like what they cost, but you can nearly always get them. Usually. Mostly. Sometimes.

When a Company like, say -- LS, contracts out to Mitsubishi to make engines for them Mitsu will do so as long as it suits them. As long as they're getting paid.

But when LS drops them and goes to..... Whoever, Yanmar, Kukje or one of many others, Mitsu isn't going to be interested in keeping a supply of parts for their old engines on hand. LS MTron is making their own in their medium sized tractors now.

Kubota, OTOH, has their name on all of it. Engine, Trans, etc. So does Kioti AFAIK.

One the biggest reasons tractor companies go ****-up is they don't back their equipment. It's costly to get another Company to do that. But when it's your own Company, you can often cost-shift the expense onto new tractors and equipment.

It's one reason why I bought a Kioti. Not the only reason, but one of them.

 

[RoyJackson]

View attachment 735967

Yes, but my main question would be in parts. Are parts still readily available for the ubiquitous, untamed YanDeere? I suspect so, Mr Green has always been pretty good about maintaining good parts supply. You might not like what they cost, but you can nearly always get them. Usually. Mostly. Sometimes.

When a Company like, say -- LS, contracts out to Mitsubishi to make engines for them Mitsu will do so as long as it suits them. As long as they're getting paid.

But when LS drops them and goes to..... Whoever, Yanmar, Kukje or one of many others, Mitsu isn't going to be interested in keeping a supply of parts for their old engines on hand. LS MTron is making their own in their medium sized tractors now.

Kubota, OTOH, has their name on all of it. Engine, Trans, etc. So does Kioti AFAIK.

One the biggest reasons tractor companies go ****-up is they don't back their equipment. It's costly to get another Company to do that. But when it's your own Company, you can often cost-shift the expense onto new tractors and equipment.

It's one reason why I bought a Kioti. Not the only reason, but one of them.

I think, in most case, OEMs buy an existing component, rather then have a supplier design, test and manufacture a custom engine.
Some components may be custom, such as valve covers with the OEM logo, and engine mounts (to match chassis)

The Yanmar engines used in Deere tractors (I'm referring to the older tractors...never checked on the newer engines) were used in other applications such as marine (very popular engines in sail boats and mid-sized yachts) and industrial situations

 

[Username Taken]

I think, in most case, OEMs buy an existing component, rather then have a supplier design, test and manufacture a custom engine.
Some components may be custom, such as valve covers with the OEM logo, and engine mounts (to match chassis)

The Yanmar engines used in Deere tractors (I'm referring to the older tractors...never checked on the newer engines) were used in other applications such as marine (very popular engines in sail boats and mid-sized yachts) and industrial situations

Does Mitsubishi even market tractors anymore??

And while YanDeere is all over the place, I don't think the design for a Shipboard generator would be similar to a tractor engine. Or for industrial use.

If XYZ Tractor Company doesn't want to make their own engines, they have to design them to fit into their tractor. And they have to meet EPA 'guidelines' (a joke) and hook up to some transmission or another as well as a transfer case. And a mid-PTO. And mechanical or direct injection systems. Maybe a turbo.

Kioti (daedong) makes the new Bobcat tractor but I can't think of too many other Tractor manufacturers that can, or will, drop an a'la carte engine into somebody else's tractor.

Then, let's say Deere moves on from using Yanmar in everything under 75HP (which I think is going to happen sooner rather than later) will Yanmar bother to make parts for engines they no longer produce? Heck no, they won't. Not unless Deere pays them a butt-load of money.

In fact, one of the biggest problems Yanmar is facing with their latest attempt at entering the US market is that they cut and ran from their customers last time. They put their tails between their legs and hauled-ass. Then there was Cub Cadet/Yanmar shotgun marriage. Another debacle.

Not picking on anybody/any OEM in particular. Just saying that -- They've been known.

Deere is trying act like they've always been interested in Compact and subcompact tractors. Not even. They'd drop them like a bad habit if they could. They make their money on the million dollar machines that get leased, then re-leased, then shipped overseas, then -- Who knows?

But Deere is a strong, well-managed company. I believe you can feel fairly comfortable buying one of their Tractors.

But -- Are they ever proud of them ($$) Many, many people are more than willing to pay for that green color. And they don't do badly at all on resale, either.

Sorry to be so long-winded. Bored

 

[Torvy]

Does Mitsubishi even market tractors anymore??

And while YanDeere is all over the place, I don't think the design for a Shipboard generator would be similar to a tractor engine. Or for industrial use.

If XYZ Tractor Company doesn't want to make their own engines, they have to design them to fit into their tractor. And they have to meet EPA 'guidelines' (a joke) and hook up to some transmission or another as well as a transfer case. And a mid-PTO. And mechanical or direct injection systems. Maybe a turbo.

Kioti (daedong) makes the new Bobcat tractor but I can't think of too many other Tractor manufacturers that can, or will, drop an a'la carte engine into somebody else's tractor.

Then, let's say Deere moves on from using Yanmar in everything under 75HP (which I think is going to happen sooner rather than later) will Yanmar bother to make parts for engines they no longer produce? Heck no, they won't. Not unless Deere pays them a butt-load of money.

In fact, one of the biggest problems Yanmar is facing with their latest attempt at entering the US market is that they cut and ran from their customers last time. They put their tails between their legs and hauled-ass. Then there was Cub Cadet/Yanmar shotgun marriage. Another debacle.

Not picking on anybody/any OEM in particular. Just saying that -- They've been known.

Deere is trying act like they've always been interested in Compact and subcompact tractors. Not even. They'd drop them like a bad habit if they could. They make their money on the million dollar machines that get leased, then re-leased, then shipped overseas, then -- Who knows?

But Deere is a strong, well-managed company. I believe you can feel fairly comfortable buying one of their Tractors.

But -- Are they ever proud of them ($$) Many, many people are more than willing to pay for that green color. And they don't do badly at all on resale, either.

Sorry to be so long-winded. Bored

MITSUBISHI – Compact Offroad Mitsubishi Models

mstractors.com

 

[paulfun9]

No, it is not stealing...John Deere was inspired to produce a more durable piece of equipment.

Just a post by someone who doesn't like, or is envious, of those who choose Deere products...

Typical to try and blame someone’s mindset instead of trying to factually disprove it.

 

[RoyJackson]

And while YanDeere is all over the place, I don't think the design for a Shipboard generator would be similar to a tractor engine. Or for industrial use.

If XYZ Tractor Company doesn't want to make their own engines, they have to design them to fit into their tractor. And they have to meet EPA 'guidelines' (a joke) and hook up to some transmission or another as well as a transfer case. And a mid-PTO. And mechanical or direct injection systems. Maybe a turbo.



Then, let's say Deere moves on from using Yanmar in everything under 75HP (which I think is going to happen sooner rather than later) will Yanmar bother to make parts for engines they no longer produce? Heck no, they won't. Not unless Deere pays them a butt-load of money.

In fact, one of the biggest problems Yanmar is facing with their latest attempt at entering the US market is that they cut and ran from their customers last time. They put their tails between their legs and hauled-ass. Then there was Cub Cadet/Yanmar shotgun marriage. Another debacle.

Not picking on anybody/any OEM in particular. Just saying that -- They've been known.

Deere is trying act like they've always been interested in Compact and subcompact tractors. Not even. They'd drop them like a bad habit if they could. They make their money on the million dollar machines that get leased, then re-leased, then shipped overseas, then -- Who knows?

But Deere is a strong, well-managed company. I believe you can feel fairly comfortable buying one of their Tractors.

But -- Are they ever proud of them ($$) Many, many people are more than willing to pay for that green color. And they don't do badly at all on resale, either.

I think you're totally off base here...

Yanmar engines used by Deere, are used in marine and industrial applications. An engine is an engine. There will be some differences (with smaller HP Yanmar engines, those differences are part of the design...and, Deere Powertech are also used as marine diesels for larger craft)

Now this:
"Deere is trying act like they've always been interested in Compact and subcompact tractors. Not even."
Where do you come up with this BS? Are you a member of the John Deere Board of Directors or part of Deere's marketing department?
CUTs are a big part of the tractor market. My guess is for every "million dollar" machine they sell, they sell hundreds of CUTs.
No offense, but your comment there was ludicrous...

 

[DK35vince]

Personally, I don't see why having a different Mfg. engine in a tractor is an issue.
It's common in commercial Contruction equipment and class 8 trucks, Etc.

 

[Torvy]

Personally, I don't see why having a different Mfg. engine in a tractor is an issue.
It's common in commercial Contruction equipment and class 8 trucks, Etc.

It is not that it is a problem, except that if a manufacturer is riding a false reputation of being American. If people are choosing any brand because of that, tractors or whatever, they are do varying degrees being duped. There certainly are some things that are made here, but it can be difficult to say. If a company manufacturers things from steel, but the steel is from China, is it American made? While there is a geopolitical issue with supporting authoritarian regimes or those who distort the free market, it should not matter that much. (Meaning if the same things were made or sourced in Australia or Switzerland, many people would have less of an issue.)

 

[check 6]

Will drive you crazy trying to figure that out;I know the most American made car is a Honda;and truck is a Toyota!
I believe Kubota at least makes all the own parts.

not to correct you but the most American truck is the Honda Ridgeline with over 70% of the parts American . The Toyota trucks are assembled in San Antonio but parts come from various locations as does the parts of almost anything you buy in this world economy

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

There are companies, divisions of companies, sister companies, and manufacturing associations who make engines.

Daihatsu is a sister company of Toyota. Engines in some Toyotas are Daihatsu engines with different valve covers, injectors, and ECUs. Daihatsu makes Kei class, Japanese home market cars and trucks, and engines for world wide distribution. Some of their engines say Daihatsu, some say Toyota, some say Briggs and Stratton, some say Cat, and are in Cat skid loaders, and MiniExs.

There is an Italian company, which makes vehicles with the same body, and trim packages, but a larger displacement engine, built on the same engine block, as Daihatsu Kei class JDM vehicles, for the EU market.

Engineers, can redesign all kinds of things to work together. An engine doesn’t care what bell housing, bolted to what transmission, generator, etc., is bolted on the back of it. If you want to change the torque curve, and make more or less horsepower, you change the cam, injectors, and ECM. You can change the crankshaft to make more torque on the low end, or more horsepower on the high end.

I know that the Mitsubishi engine in my TYM, is also in Cat skid steers, and MiniExcavators, and in gensets, and water pumps, and a couple of versions of other small diesel powered whatevers, made by whoever. I also know that if I look for the TYM, part number for engine component, and only use the last eight numbers, the injection line I’m looking for will come up under other equipment manufacturers parts numbers and systems, and work. I know that the engine was made for thirty plus years, and I can find complete rebuild kits on eBay for the engine in the displacement installed in my TYM T233HST, or I can buy a rebuild kit for $30 more with the cylinder liners, and pistons, to turn my tractor into a T273HST. And, if I ever need to rebuild the engine I probably will. I also know that, I can install a belt drive Aisan Roots pattern supercharger, and larger injectors on the engine, set it up with 10-lbs of boost, and increase the torque.

It is important to know what engine, you have and who designed it. Because if you know that, you can frequently, step outside the box, and save money on parts, or even get parts to work on orphaned equipment, and keep it running.

I’m constantly bemused by the guys on the minitruck forum I post on.. They can’t seem to grasp that the generators and alternators, are standard Denso parts, and if they know how to ask, they can replace them inexpensively at NAPA. Or save even more by rebuilding them. They insist on ordering them out of Japan for three and four times as much..

 

[RoyJackson]

There are companies, divisions of companies, sister companies, and manufacturing associations who make engines.

Daihatsu is a sister company of Toyota. Engines in some Toyotas are Daihatsu engines with different valve covers, injectors, and ECUs. Daihatsu makes Kei class, Japanese home market cars and trucks, and engines for world wide distribution. Some of their engines say Daihatsu, some say Toyota, some say Briggs and Stratton, some say Cat, and are in Cat skid loaders, and MiniExs.

There is an Italian company, which makes vehicles with the same body, and trim packages, but a larger displacement engine, built on the same engine block, as Daihatsu Kei class JDM vehicles, for the EU market.

Engineers, can redesign all kinds of things to work together. An engine doesn’t care what bell housing, bolted to what transmission, generator, etc., is bolted on the back of it. If you want to change the torque curve, and make more or less horsepower, you change the cam, injectors, and ECM. You can change the crankshaft to make more torque on the low end, or more horsepower on the high end.

I know that the Mitsubishi engine in my TYM, is also in Cat skid steers, and MiniExcavators, and in gensets, and water pumps, and a couple of versions of other small diesel powered whatevers, made by whoever. I also know that if I look for the TYM, part number for engine component, and only use the last eight numbers, the injection line I’m looking for will come up under other equipment manufacturers parts numbers and systems, and work. I know that the engine was made for thirty plus years, and I can find complete rebuild kits on eBay for the engine in the displacement installed in my TYM T233HST, or I can buy a rebuild kit for $30 more with the cylinder liners, and pistons, to turn my tractor into a T273HST. And, if I ever need to rebuild the engine I probably will. I also know that, I can install a belt drive Aisan Roots pattern supercharger, and larger injectors on the engine, set it up with 10-lbs of boost, and increase the torque.

It is important to know what engine, you have and who designed it. Because if you know that, you can frequently, step outside the box, and save money on parts, or even get parts to work on orphaned equipment, and keep it running.

I’m constantly bemused by the guys on the minitruck forum I post on.. They can’t seem to grasp that the generators and alternators, are standard Denso parts, and if they know how to ask, they can replace them inexpensively at NAPA. Or save even more by rebuilding them. They insist on ordering them out of Japan for three and four times as much..

Well said!!

 

[Hay Dude]

Some Larger Massey Ferguson tractors have Fendt transmissions and rear axles in them. Mine does. I love it. AGCO blends the best attributes of all its brands

 

[Reddogs]

The food industry is the same way. If you think the product is produced by the company on the label, think again because you are most likely wrong.

Very true, in college at the bakery plant many of the students worked at, made health bars, baked goods, sweets, etc.. for Kelloggs, Lays, Sunbelt, etc... The main difference was you had to be extra careful with the quality as they could rescind the contract otherwise... Thats why I look at the drivetrain with the engine and transmission above all else, as the other parts can be replaced or easily repaired. But now we get this regen and electronics that is adding another layer of complexity/repair and bringing ruin to the long term use and reliability, to say nothing about poor service and overall customer satisfaction..

 

[Cougsfan]

With today's tractors I don't think the engine and transmission are going to be the things that give you trouble regardless of the brand (assuming you don't neglect them). I think your future problems are more likely to be, as you mention, in the area of electronics and other controls.