Who makes the repairs on your tractor?

[PILOON]

Someone mentioned 'righty tighty, lefty loosey'

LOL knew a very competent backyard mechanic that snapped a stud when removing a wheel from an old house trailer.
It turned out that the undercarriage was made using older generation Chrysler components.
(Chrysler engineers at one time used both right and left hand studs on their cars as a safety measure.)

Even the best can be fooled.
I'm not in the best category either but that wheel also had me fooled and it cost me a broken crossbar tire wrench.

Was at a dealer shop one time and noticed each work station sported computers mounted on carts.
My complaint was a 'metallic thumping' coming from the right rear.
Mechanic replaced a stabilizer link to the tune of $100. parts and labor.
Never cured the problem but the shop offered to re install my perfectly good link for another $100.

I later discovered that it was the tail pipe that would hit the aftermarket (dealer installed) trailer hitch.
I wrapped some rubber around the hitch and fastened with hose clamps and that ended the metallic thumping.

Needless to say most of my tractor repairs and maintenance is on a DIY basis.
A shop and parts manual (plus tools) are your best friends.

 

[rScotty]

You are 100% correct. It's not just knowing righty tighty from lefty loosey,it's all about what to loosey and which to tighty the first time around. Read through these forums and people are looking for diagnostics and troubleshooting help,even backyard diyers know how to turn bolts and screws if someone tells them which need's turning. But how do you explain to a guy that thinks barbers and Blackjack dealers are in the field of medicine? This is the kind of reasoning that force's college entrance scores to be weighted for those that can't cut the mustard.

.

I'm still waiting for an answer my question. Did you - or anyone - ever figure out how to tell the dishonest mechanics from the inept? That isn't just aimed at jaxs, I'd just like to know.
I'll say right now that I don't know the answer to that question, and it is something that has bothered me ever since I owned that mechanical shop almost 50 years ago.

Part of the problem is that diagnosis and wrenching are becoming increasingly separate skills. Maybe they always were. But regardless, it seems that every single mechanic out there also thinks he is an absolute ace at figuring out what is wrong. That mistaken belief is a big part of what makes him wrong.....maybe it even makes him stupid.....But does it make him a criminal?? Not in my eyes..

Until we know the answer, I think the responsibility for accurate estimates lies partly with the mechanical shop but also with the customer. If both became better educated about what the other knows, it would go a long way towards solving the problem. Maybe it would work in other professions as well.

rScotty

BTW, jaxs it's fascinating that you brought up your problem with college entrance exams. That was a problem for me, too.

 

[bunyip]

we use a local mechanic,he replaced the front dampers in a car we had and after a weekit started making strange noises, took it back to get fixed.
Went to pickk it up and pulled out my wallet, mechanic got a bit sheepish and said he fitted a part incorrectly and no charge, that was 15 years ago and we use him now knowing he is honest.
I may start doing the tractor myself as a basic service is $500+

 

[jaxs]

.

I'm still waiting for an answer my question. Did you - or anyone - ever figure out how to tell the dishonest mechanics from the inept? That isn't just aimed at jaxs, I'd just like to know.
I'll say right now that I don't know the answer to that question, and it is something that has bothered me ever since I owned that mechanical shop almost 50 years ago.

Part of the problem is that diagnosis and wrenching are becoming increasingly separate skills. Maybe they always were. But regardless, it seems that every single mechanic out there also thinks he is an absolute ace at figuring out what is wrong. That mistaken belief is a big part of what makes him wrong.....maybe it even makes him stupid.....But does it make him a criminal?? Not in my eyes..

Until we know the answer, I think the responsibility for accurate estimates lies partly with the mechanical shop but also with the customer. If both became better educated about what the other knows, it would go a long way towards solving the problem. Maybe it would work in other professions as well.

rScotty

BTW, jaxs it's fascinating that you brought up your problem with college entrance exams. That was a problem for me, too.

I believe we did. We felt,and I still do,that ineptness and theft both deserve sanctions. That's why bad publicity AND fines were mentioned in my original reference to this. Here's some cases,you tell me if there's room for uncertainty on which the mechanic
(actually the company owners since they are held responsible) are guilty of,ignorance or stealing? Late model F-150 with damaged front seal in transmission taken into trans shop with locations in several cities. Complaint,fluid leaking from unknow source. Requested service,estimate cost for repair. Call received within 45 minutes stating trans had metal shavings throughout and require's rebuild for $x,xxx. Knowing cost was more than new trans and install by Ford dealership,price requested for new trans instead of rebuild. They claim trans and computer are interconnected making another trans incompatiable. Told shop I must ask my boss before approving cost,then rushed over to shop where truck sit in rear of shop where customers are forbidden to go. As we walked toward truck,service mgr threatened to call cops. Att Gen's investigator said "that's not necessary,we are already here"as he displayed his badge.
Dirt and grease confirmed pan had never been removed. Same truck,two weeks later,same company,different location,same complaint and request for service. Call received stating trans front seal leaking will need replaced for $xxx. Approval given to repair. A second call received stating front trans input shaft damaged and must be replaced for $xxx(almost triple original estimate). If shaft isn't replaced,truck must be towed because shaft will not bolt up. "Wait until I can come inspect shaft and confirm to boss that replacement isn't optional." On arrival,truck on lift,trans sitting on bench partially dis-assembled and service mgr holding a shaft with bearing welded to it from friction heat. I told him boss wasn't answering so I would go ahead and approve replacement but need to take old shaft with me. He snatched shaft from my hand saying he is required to retain shaft. After futher discussion and refusal to surrender shaft,invsetigator showed his badge and told him the repair is approved but we were taking shaft and he might see us agin in 2 weeks if shaft is found not to be from our vehicle. Service mgr had a cursing and shouting meltdown and refused to reassemble truck. So Scotty,would you have difficulty deciding in either of these instances if shop is inept or crooked? What action,if any do you believe appropriate?

 

[MHarryE]

Not sure why people try to scare others about new. Between my nephew, cousin, and me, we have something over 30 tractors from a 1939 TD6 crawler to a 2018 M7-171. All routine maintenance and minor repairs ourselves. Rarely does anything go to a shop. The book can be scared. My GR2120 stated it needed to go to the dealer to change the fuel filters. Did it myself with no problem and asked dealer what I missed. He said a tire needs to be removed to access the first filter so they say dealer. My question was flat tire - take to dealer? The GR2120 has been the most unreliable Kubota I’ve owned. Under warranty I’d explain to my dealer what happened, what I needed, and he’d ship parts. Now I order from Messick’s. When I punch a rod through the block (something that has not yet happened), it will go to the dealer.

 

[RickB]

Do yourself a favor. If the GR2120 ventilates the block send it to the scrapyard.
When you service the Hydraulics be sure to pull the screen and clean it.

 

[PILOON]

.

I'm still waiting for an answer my question. Did you - or anyone - ever figure out how to tell the dishonest mechanics from the inept? That isn't just aimed at jaxs, I'd just like to know.
I'll say right now that I don't know the answer to that question, and it is something that has bothered me ever since I owned that mechanical shop almost 50 years ago.

Part of the problem is that diagnosis and wrenching are becoming increasingly separate skills. Maybe they always were. But regardless, it seems that every single mechanic out there also thinks he is an absolute ace at figuring out what is wrong. That mistaken belief is a big part of what makes him wrong.....maybe it even makes him stupid.....But does it make him a criminal?? Not in my eyes..

Until we know the answer, I think the responsibility for accurate estimates lies partly with the mechanical shop but also with the customer. If both became better educated about what the other knows, it would go a long way towards solving the problem. Maybe it would work in other professions as well.

rScotty

BTW, jaxs it's fascinating that you brought up your problem with college entrance exams. That was a problem for me, too.

Well I knew one,
So honest he went out of business.
More than a few times he'd only charge a 'normal trade price' even though he'd spent hours.
While most garages bill out 50-60 hours per work week while my honest guy usually averaged 30 hrs.
He was one guy that still machined brake discs to save the client $'s.
If an exhaust stud broke on an older car he'd take the attitude that he should have known better and that it was not the client's fault.

 

[rScotty]

I believe we did. We felt,and I still do,that ineptness and theft both deserve sanctions. That's why bad publicity AND fines were mentioned in my original reference to this. Here's some cases,you tell me if there's room for uncertainty on which the mechanic
(actually the company owners since they are held responsible) are guilty of,ignorance or stealing? Late model F-150 with damaged front seal in transmission taken into trans shop with locations in several cities. Complaint,fluid leaking from unknow source. Requested service,estimate cost for repair. Call received within 45 minutes stating trans had metal shavings throughout and require's rebuild for $x,xxx. Knowing cost was more than new trans and install by Ford dealership,price requested for new trans instead of rebuild. They claim trans and computer are interconnected making another trans incompatiable. Told shop I must ask my boss before approving cost,then rushed over to shop where truck sit in rear of shop where customers are forbidden to go. As we walked toward truck,service mgr threatened to call cops. Att Gen's investigator said "that's not necessary,we are already here"as he displayed his badge.
Dirt and grease confirmed pan had never been removed. Same truck,two weeks later,same company,different location,same complaint and request for service. Call received stating trans front seal leaking will need replaced for $xxx. Approval given to repair. A second call received stating front trans input shaft damaged and must be replaced for $xxx(almost triple original estimate). If shaft isn't replaced,truck must be towed because shaft will not bolt up. "Wait until I can come inspect shaft and confirm to boss that replacement isn't optional." On arrival,truck on lift,trans sitting on bench partially dis-assembled and service mgr holding a shaft with bearing welded to it from friction heat. I told him boss wasn't answering so I would go ahead and approve replacement but need to take old shaft with me. He snatched shaft from my hand saying he is required to retain shaft. After futher discussion and refusal to surrender shaft,invsetigator showed his badge and told him the repair is approved but we were taking shaft and he might see us agin in 2 weeks if shaft is found not to be from our vehicle. Service mgr had a cursing and shouting meltdown and refused to reassemble truck. So Scotty,would you have difficulty deciding in either of these instances if shop is inept or crooked? What action,if any do you believe appropriate?

Jaxs, I believe your stories make my point; not yours.

The evidence in the first case revolves around wheter metal in the transmission and how that couldn't be confirmed without removing the pan.
The trouble is that removing the pan isn't true or necessary. There are several quicker and easier ways than removing the pan to see enough metal to comfortably make that diagnoses. So removing the pan is not necessary at this point - not that it is much work if needs be done. I'd say that the Att Gen investigator investigating mechanical fraud, should have either been a good enough mechanic to know that, or the investigator should have brought a real mechanic along.


The second case is a little different but amount to the same thing. The key is that a bearing welded to an input shaft does enough peripheral damage to make it easy. The transmission is already disassembled, a glance at the transmission would have been enough for almost any mechanic to know if that particular shaft was from that transmission and if the peripheral damage agreed with the welded bearing . I agree that it was appropriate to take the shaft and double check. You didn't say what the outcome is, so I can't answer your question because I don't know if the shop was inept or crooked. Without knowing more about that shaft I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Which would be that you have an an honest shop and an outraged owner..

In fact, both of your stories don't say - much less prove - that these were honest shops or not.
But both stories sure show that the Att. General Investigation team is inept mechanically.
I'm guessing that stories like this are why the law was repealed.
rScotty

 

[shooterdon]

I will do minor stuff on all my toys but major work goes to a shop. With a new LS, I am not expecting much in the area of tractor repairs. On the old JD855, I had over $2000 in repairs last year done at the dealer. It was not a good experience as some of the work was less than satisfactory and in hind sight I should have done it myself and saved $1000.

Have to agree that troubleshooting is one of the areas I expect the dealer to be better at than I am. They see hundreds of problems and should be able to get it right faster than I can. For example....the guy who returned the JD could not get the 3PH to go down after it had been in the shop. Called the dealer and service tech told us to stand on the hitch to apply some down force while operating the position control and it worked. Just one of the "tricks" that experience brings to the table. That will not be in the owners manual or service manual.

 

[jaxs]

Jaxs, I believe your stories make my point; not yours.

The evidence in the first case revolves around wheter metal in the transmission and how that couldn't be confirmed without removing the pan.
The trouble is that removing the pan isn't true or necessary. There are several quicker and easier ways than removing the pan to see enough metal to comfortably make that diagnoses. So removing the pan is not necessary at this point - not that it is much work if needs be done. I'd say that the Att Gen investigator investigating mechanical fraud, should have either been a good enough mechanic to know that, or the investigator should have brought a real mechanic along.


The second case is a little different but amount to the same thing. The key is that a bearing welded to an input shaft does enough peripheral damage to make it easy. The transmission is already disassembled, a glance at the transmission would have been enough for almost any mechanic to know if that particular shaft was from that transmission and if the peripheral damage agreed with the welded bearing . I agree that it was appropriate to take the shaft and double check. You didn't say what the outcome is, so I can't answer your question because I don't know if the shop was inept or crooked. Without knowing more about that shaft I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Which would be that you have an an honest shop and an outraged owner..

In fact, both of your stories don't say - much less prove - that these were honest shops or not.
But both stories sure show that the Att. General Investigation team is inept mechanically.
I'm guessing that stories like this are why the law was repealed.
rScotty

The first evidence of metal in trans can and often is detected in fluid on dip stick or fluid drained or leaked without removeing pan.The question of pan removal only came into play because caller stated when they removed pan it had two handfuls of shaveings in it. Pan removal aside,the fact remains' no shavings were detected by mechanic before or after that day,including second case where trans was partially dis-assembled. In the case involving bad input shaft,the bad shaft displayed by service mgr was determined to be from something much different to a Ford F-150. As fleet owners,you and possibly others would continue sending vehicles to these shops after this experience but I feel confident in saying you would be in a very small minority.
It's interesting you find so many ways to excuse those shops,how were you able to conclude certified mechanics were not in attendance from start to finish and investigator was inept? May I ask how you feel about what the average consumer has to say about good or bad service? ,I refuse paying for unnecessary repair beit due to ignorance or dishonesty. I recommend others do the same but it's their choice,maggots have to eat to.