Whole House Generators

[MossRoad]

I keep mine in a grage with a cloth over it as well. It is not big enough to run the entire house, so it is kind of a pain to go and shut off all of the breakers. I end up resetting the clocks on all the electronic stuff. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[MossRoad]

Sounds like a touchy piece of equipment.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Yup, has all the characteristics of New, Improved, Energy efficient built right in.
[censored] AlGore, he just couldn't be satisfied with inventing the internet, he had to go IMPROVE oil burners too.
Relays work, so lets replace them with solid state.

 

[Duckhunter]

Here is my 2 cents worth.
Last winter I went 7 days without power in Central Arkansas due to an ice storm. I had already been shopping whole house generators for 2 months or so after hearing my neighbors 20KW Cummins /Onan during previous outages, one as long as 24 hours. His is a 4 cyl Ford Industrial on a 500 gal propane tank. We each live on 10 acres which makes the noise not a problem. I can just hear a hum due to it being on the side of his house facing mine. I trusted his advise and the reputation of Cummins / Onan and purchased a 35 KW also on propane. This unit uses a 6 cyl Ford in line 6cyl 300 cu inch, new models come with V-6 Ford power plants. I got to use the Generator for 2 days on it's shipping pallet with my electric meter pulled to prevent feedback fed by a 420 lb (100 gallon) propane tank. It ran my whole with 2 heat pumps, well pump, and all other accessories pulling only 50 amps at the heaviest load I noticed. Over the next 3 months I poured a slab for permanent installation, and bought a matching Cummins / Onan 300 amp Auto Xfer switch for auto switching. If you are building new, try to locate your Gen Set as close as possible to your main service entrance and electrical panels, along a garage wall would be nice to isolate the noise from the rest of your house. My 35kw makes more fan noise than engine / exhaust noise. It is much quieter than the 8hp Briggs and Stratton generator I used the 3 previous days of the storm. Every Generator with an Auto Transfer switch requires a main disconnect for the service entrance wired in before the Xfer switch. This is required so the switch can be wired and gives a real life way to test under load by shutting off utility service. I had to replace my meter loop with a combination main breaker and meter socket combined. This puppy was not cheap, over $1500. I was lucky to find one that would fit between my existing panels. (see picture). I also added another remote panel for additional breakers for an ongoing project on the other side of the house. As others have mentioned, the panel must be sized to match or exceed your incoming electrical service amperage and your generator max load amperage. I mounted my transfer wwitch under the crawl space of my house which is high enough to walk under and used a Type 1 enclosure. If the switch is outside, you will need a Type 4R enclosure which adds cost. A Type 1 installed on an inside garage wall with the disconnect and panels on he same wall outside makes the cleanest installation. These switches can be rather large, mine is about 36 x 24 x 14 deep. They are computerized with all kinds of settings and delays you can set for start up time after utility failure, cool down after transfer back to utility, exercise cycles any day or time, and many others your dealer will set once and leave. I have had NO problems with my Cummins / Onan, I got great service from my dealer on initial start up when I made the permanent installation and they answer all my questions promptly. I highly suggest looking at this type of install as a part of your house which will be added value if you ever sell. Do it right and buy a quality product from Cummins / Onan or Kohler. (see pictures)

 

[Duckhunter]

Meter Loop Picture

Here is the picture of the Combination meter socket and disconnect. It is a Milbank brand with 300 amp breaker / disconnect installed. These come in 260 amp but can be special ordered with the breaker to match your service entrance amperage.

 

[MossRoad]

Why did you need the combination meter socket and disconnect and why was it so expensive? I added a disconnect to my house between the existing meter and main service panel. The box was under $40.00. Just curious.

 

[Duckhunter]

Mainly because of where my underground service entrance was located. The disconnect would have had to be 2' off the ground. I looked at 300 amp disconnects, and they were way more than $40. This way I had a disconnect AND a whole house breaker in case of a major failure in the Transfer Switch. If you look at the picture, the 2 boxes on either side were existing and not able to be moved. The combo unit fit perfectly between them and hit the knockout for the 3" service entrance conduit perfectly. I got this one at cost through a friend. I was priced as much as $600 more for the same box at other electrical supply dealers. It pays to shop around.

 

[JDIceman]

DocHeb,
I have installed many gen. sets from 8kw to 150kw in places from single family dwellings to health care facilities to natural gas compressor stations. All of which involved auto- transfer switches, I know of no major problems with any of these switches. I would strongly recommend that one be installed, they make the system just what the name implies automatic. They insure that generated power is not backfed into the utility wiring,they will exersize your generator as often as you would like, with or with out load. All of this is done during the initial startup of your unit, and can be changed when ever you like. I would say the most common brand would be Generac, and would consider it to be a dependable unit. Take careful considerations when deciding on the size, this should involve your electrical contractor considerably, if they are not familiar with these types of calculations, find someone who is. Let me know if you have any other questions, I'll be glad to help.

Sincerly,
JDIceman

 

[fractal]

A friend of mine in up state new jersey has a natural gas generator on automatic switch. His claim is that in the 10 yrs he has had his, the power has failed countless times but the gas has never failed. His runs for 30 minutes every week, and his maintence guy comes either once or twice a year. Pretty cheap insurance I would think. I suppose it all depends on where you live.

People have a LOT of choice when they initially wire their house. Retrofiting a sub-panel with just the essential circuits and running them from a generator is difficult. Building your house so your hot tub and most outside lighting is off the main pannel and your primary indoor lighting, fridge, heater, microwave and other essentials are off the sub pannel is not so hard.

I have thought about converting my house to backup power but the main pannel is just outside the kitchen in plain sight to the street. The ideal location for the generator is on the other end of the house near the gas meter. Again, this would have been easy to solve when the house was built. I guess that the only way to handle it now is, as you plan, with a whole house generator. It just seems silly to buy a generator capable of running that electric dryer (1/2 of my electric bill) should the power fail when I am not home. I could cut the size of a generator in half by eliminating several very high consumption, non essential devices (washer, dryer, air compressor).

I can not recommend brands myself and would also like to hear advice. I would check with your neighbors and see how often they have to relight the pilot lights in their hot water heaters. If it is very rare, I think a NG unit might be a good choice for low maintence, high reliability.