Why no "Power Beyond" for Kubota tractor?

[Cat_Driver]

I just called Messics and they have no power beyond for Kubota tractor OEM.
I want to connect a Backhoe and Trencher to a L4060 HST cab.

Sales said they have a "FLOAT" valve but no "POWER BEYOND"
It's my undertsanding that one needs a power beyond valve detent to
run a backhoe?

Like a lot of people I'm clueless to hydraulics.

I have two rear remotes already on the tractor is it possible to
make one of those remotes a power beyond detent by just
switching out the valve?

Apologize up front for my ignorance on this.

By the way the sales guy said I should just use a "BUNGEE" to hold
the valve open.......WTH

 

[RNeumann]

Yah you got bad info. Snap a photo of your loader valve and add that if you don’t get better replies from Kubota owners. Their may also be something directly off the machine that has the hydraulic output you need.

A BH and trencher are two totally different beasts. You will need to plan for the continuous flow and added heat.

 

[k0ua]

By definination the loader valve has a power beyond connection On the block the connection that is orange is flow from pump, the gray is return to tank and the green is power beyond. If it didn't have power beyond on the loader valve the two rear remotes wouldn't work.

To be honest with you since neither of the two remotes have a detent, actually using a bungee cord to hold one of them open for flow to your backhoe isn't all that bad of an idea, and is often done in that circumstance for a quick and easy way to hook up a backhoe . If you want to switch out one of the remotes so that the valve has a detent, that is doable, but there will be the cost of the valve and the labor. It will be many hundreds of dollars and the only difference is the valve lever will now "stick" in detent and hold there to power your backhoe. PROVIDED it is hooked up or you have a flow bypass loop installed on the remote A and B ports. If you don't have the backhoe hooked up so that it can return back to tank you will "deadhead" the pump if you accidentally put the valve into detent without either the flow bypass loop of hose on that remote or the backhoe installed . And deadheading your pump is not a good thing. I had the detent removed on my valve when I took delivery of my Kioti, just for that reason. I didn't want to accidentally (or more likely someone else) place the lever into detent. So the bungee cord is something you are going to notice right away pulling that lever and you are going to remove it. of course if you have a flow loop made up, it is no big deal.

 

[k0ua]

So the choice is yours. A Bungee cord for $1 or a new valve and install, probably north of $500. Both will work equally well.

 

[murphy1244]

Run the return to the hydraulic fill port to keep the oil cooler.

 

[Fallon]

You mean detented valve. Those will stay latched on in one or both directions. However they aren't offered on CUTs for some reason. They are likely offered on bigger machines, but I'm not familiar with them.

All Kubota valves on CUTs for quite some time have had power beyond. Most other CUT manufacturers as well.

 

[Cat_Driver]

So the choice is yours. A Bungee cord for $1 or a new valve and install, probably north of $500. Both will work equally well.

I used my wife as a "bungee cord" and what happens is the backhow freezes and to unfreeze it I need her to retract the valve in the reverse direction then back to the other direction so the bungee lock would not work. I'm thinking there needs to be some dort of relief that the current valves don't have( which is the Kubota valve kit)

CONFUSED

 

[Cat_Driver]

Run the return to the hydraulic fill port to keep the oil cooler.

So run the 2nd hose at the back of the tractor fill port by removing the quick disconnect - right?

 

[Cat_Driver]

By definination the loader valve has a power beyond connection On the block the connection that is orange is flow from pump, the gray is return to tank and the green is power beyond. If it didn't have power beyond on the loader valve the two rear remotes wouldn't work.

To be honest with you since neither of the two remotes have a detent, actually using a bungee cord to hold one of them open for flow to your backhoe isn't all that bad of an idea, and is often done in that circumstance for a quick and easy way to hook up a backhoe . If you want to switch out one of the remotes so that the valve has a detent, that is doable, but there will be the cost of the valve and the labor. It will be many hundreds of dollars and the only difference is the valve lever will now "stick" in detent and hold there to power your backhoe. PROVIDED it is hooked up or you have a flow bypass loop installed on the remote A and B ports. If you don't have the backhoe hooked up so that it can return back to tank you will "deadhead" the pump if you accidentally put the valve into detent without either the flow bypass loop of hose on that remote or the backhoe installed . And deadheading your pump is not a good thing. I had the detent removed on my valve when I took delivery of my Kioti, just for that reason. I didn't want to accidentally (or more likely someone else) place the lever into detent. So the bungee cord is something you are going to notice right away pulling that lever and you are going to remove it. of course if you have a flow loop made up, it is no big deal.

OK I think that's it - the FLOW LOOP. Because the backhoe is lockking up on me with the bungee ( wife holding it) method.
How does one make a FLOW LOOP?

 

[Cat_Driver]

OK let me get some photos and send them along

 

[murphy1244]

So run the 2nd hose at the back of the tractor fill port by removing the quick disconnect - right?

yes sir----also A flow loop is a section of hose that connects the 2 ports together so you can't deadhead.

 

[oldnslo]

I used my wife as a "bungee cord" and what happens is the backhow freezes and to unfreeze it I need her to retract the valve in the reverse direction then back to the other direction so the bungee lock would not work. I'm thinking there needs to be some dort of relief that the current valves don't have( which is the Kubota valve kit)

CONFUSED

Cat driver,
If connecting to your rear remotes you MUST connect one of the hoses to pressure port of the back hoe valve and the other port of the remote must connect to the tank port of your back hoe. It is VERY, VERY important to be 110% sure that when you operate your remote directional valve that the port being pressurized is ALWAYS the line connected to pressure port of the back hoe. If you reverse these connections there is very good chance that you will damage the back hoe valve.

 

[s219]

You don't need to run the backhoe off a remote valve. Just plumb the backhoe inline in the power beyond loop, after the front loader and before the three point hitch (I'd put it after the remote valves).

If it's a Kubota backhoe, it's meant to plumb into the power beyond loop with hoses. When you attache the backhoe, the hoses connect to it. When you remove the backhoe, the hoses connect together to maintain the power beyond loop.

Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[s219]

I just called Messics and they have no power beyond for Kubota tractor OEM.
I want to connect a Backhoe and Trencher to a L4060 HST cab.

Sales said they have a "FLOAT" valve but no "POWER BEYOND"
It's my undertsanding that one needs a power beyond valve detent to
run a backhoe?

Also, your terminology is really mixed up, which isn't helping you or anyone else. Some valves are float, some are double acting, some have detent. Power beyond isn't a valve type, it's the hydraulic circuit itself. All the valves run off power beyond.

 

[Oldoak]

You don't need to run the backhoe off a remote valve. Just plumb the backhoe inline in the power beyond loop, after the front loader and before the three point hitch (I'd put it after the remote valves).

If it's a Kubota backhoe, it's meant to plumb into the power beyond loop with hoses. When you attache the backhoe, the hoses connect to it. When you remove the backhoe, the hoses connect together to maintain the power beyond loop.

Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

:thumbsup:
That is the way my Kubota BH92 backhoe is plumbed on my L5060.

 

[Cat_Driver]

You don't need to run the backhoe off a remote valve. Just plumb the backhoe inline in the power beyond loop, after the front loader and before the three point hitch (I'd put it after the remote valves).

If it's a Kubota backhoe, it's meant to plumb into the power beyond loop with hoses. When you attache the backhoe, the hoses connect to it. When you remove the backhoe, the hoses connect together to maintain the power beyond loop.

Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

I found this....I think this is what you mean

 

[Cat_Driver]

I found this in the manual so it goes AGAINST all the bungee talk....


A Do not hold the lever in the "REARWARD" or "FORWARD" position once the remote cylinder has reached the end of the stroke, as this will cause oil to flow through the relief valve. Forcing oil through the relief valve for extended periods will overheat the oil.
A Whenusingthetractorhydraulicsystemtopowerfront loader, do not operate boom and bucket cylinders simultaneously.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Also, your terminology is really mixed up, which isn't helping you or anyone else. Some valves are float, some are double acting, some have detent. Power beyond isn't a valve type, it's the hydraulic circuit itself. All the valves run off power beyond.

There in lies my problem - the lingo.
All of these term were unheard of until yesterday, so honestly I wouldn't know a power beyond if it tappen me on the shoulder.

I guess I'm finding it can be either plumbed direct from power beyong port. OR through a valve that allows flow through?

 

[Cat_Driver]

Cat driver,
If connecting to your rear remotes you MUST connect one of the hoses to pressure port of the back hoe valve and the other port of the remote must connect to the tank port of your back hoe. It is VERY, VERY important to be 110% sure that when you operate your remote directional valve that the port being pressurized is ALWAYS the line connected to pressure port of the back hoe. If you reverse these connections there is very good chance that you will damage the back hoe valve.

Thank you sir - even more scared now than ever to even touch this thing.
I wante dto avoid the dealer as they are 50 miles away, but all this seems WAY WAY WAY over my head.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Are you getting a Kubota BH made for your L? Trying to adapt an aftermarket BH could present problems. The L are designed to accept their companion BH. The operating valve for the BH is self contained and as was explained by S219 and Oldoak there are 3 connection points somewhere in the rear; Power (P) Tank (T) and Power Beyond (PB). Using a bungee cord is nonsense and a work around probably from guys that do not understand hydraulics like you. Just be sure; if you buy some after market BH that it has a PB valve setup on the BH. I have seen those 3 point hitch BHs but have no clue how they operate. That may be what folks are trying to do with the bungee instead of doing it right. The trencher presents the same problem as the BH. Once you get the P, T, PB connections figured out then the trencher must also have the 3 connections. Now you are getting into new valve subject; hydraulic motors need a valve made specifically for motors. I built a wood splitter and set it up the same as my BH, it had it's own operating valves.

If you really want to understand the hydraulics of your L get the Workshop Manual from your dealer or Messicks. If you are not mechanically minded you may never figure it out.

Probably time to at least visit your dealer and discuss what you have and what you want to do. Don't confuse your discussion with improper terminology when you do that. Let him explain. Maybe one of our hydraulic experts lives close to you and will make a site visit.

Ron