Why Run?

[Bird]

Regardless of what my opinion is the facts remain that a family has been torn apart and a young trooper has to live with this the rest of his life. Its a hard thing to put behind you, having taken someone's life to save you own. That officer will have stress problems the rest of his life. May God look after both of them.

You're most likely right. You know a large percentage of the officers who shoot someone resign not long after that. And personality changes are common. I never had any doubt about my ability to shoot if I had to, but thankfully, never had to find out for sure. However, one of my top young field training officers had to shoot and kill a man one night. Plenty of witnesses, including the dead man's wife, who all agreed that the officer had no choice; it was his life or the other man's. That young officer stayed on the department, even was, a few years later, promoted to the rank of sergeant and worked for me as a sergeant. He was still a top notch officer, but got a divorce, and while he had always been a cheerful sort of guy, I don't recall ever seeing him even smile after that shooting. There was no logical reason for him to ever regret what he'd done, but it obviously wasn't easy to live with.

And when I was a recruit in the academy, the head of the academy was as rough and tough an old cop as you'll ever meet. But he had shot a young man a few years earlier. It was justifiable and he was correct in what he'd done. But he told us he'd awakened many a night with that fellow sitting on the foot of the bed; i.e., nightmares years later.

We'd all like to think we're brave and tough . . . well, maybe brave, but sometimes not as tough as we'd like to be.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

You're most likely right. You know a large percentage of the officers who shoot someone resign not long after that. And personality changes are common. I never had any doubt about my ability to shoot if I had to, but thankfully, never had to find out for sure. However, one of my top young field training officers had to shoot and kill a man one night. Plenty of witnesses, including the dead man's wife, who all agreed that the officer had no choice; it was his life or the other man's. That young officer stayed on the department, even was, a few years later, promoted to the rank of sergeant and worked for me as a sergeant. He was still a top notch officer, but got a divorce, and while he had always been a cheerful sort of guy, I don't recall ever seeing him even smile after that shooting. There was no logical reason for him to ever regret what he'd done, but it obviously wasn't easy to live with.

And when I was a recruit in the academy, the head of the academy was as rough and tough an old cop as you'll ever meet. But he had shot a young man a few years earlier. It was justifiable and he was correct in what he'd done. But he told us he'd awakened many a night with that fellow sitting on the foot of the bed; i.e., nightmares years later.

We'd all like to think we're brave and tough . . . well, maybe brave, but sometimes not as tough as we'd like to be.

Bird, I'm of the opinion that anyone who could shoot someone, even totally justified, and NOT feel bad, shouldn't have a badge and a gun. Police work is tough, but the best I've known are compassionate as well as brave.

Wouldn't have the job myself. (Too apt to be "judge, jury, and executioner") Sure glad there are those who will take the risk.

Thanks to everyone who serves and protects.

 

[ByronBob]

Bob,

You should have mentioned why the troopers are nervious in the first place. That Phillipps character is something.

Guy has 5 days left in prison and escapes. Then he shoots a trooper. Now he's on the run near you. So this other yahoo does this....Sad way to die

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Bucky is running around over here but I do not believe there was any confusion on the officers part as to if this guy was Bucky or not. It was just a simple traffic stop for no helmet.

Of course, Bucky did steal a ATV from 1.5 miles up the road that night also, then a car and headed out towards the country more. There are so many state troopers in this area right now because of him it is crazy. They don't care about most of the typical infractions either right now. They are all looking for Bucky. It is fun to see the SWAT guys running around here with their rifles and ATV's. I do not see this Bucky thing ending well though.

 

[frank_f15]

yep Robert, strange thing is (as you know) i am just a few miles north of you, but the thought has crossed my mind what if???? so you must be aware of what can happen and be prepared!

 

[Soundguy]

I must be out of the loop.. someone fill me in on the who/when/where on this bucky fellow?

Soundguy

 

[_RaT_]

Were these guys pulled over for not wearing a helmet or for riding unregistered or unregisterable vehicles on a state road? I know in CA we can ride a ATV or dirt bike without a helmet. We cannot however ride them on state or county roads. Just curious.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

They were originally pulled over for no helmet. NY law requires helmets when you are on the roads. Of course, you are not allowed to ride on public roads with a ATV but I don't think the troopers were too concerned about that, just the riders safety because of all the people around there they didn't want someone to have an accident and get hurt. It was just a simple stop that went terribly wrong.

Chris, Bucky Phillips is a local guy here who has always been a thief. His reputation growing up was when your bicycle came up missing you just went to his house and took it back. His entire life has been just one crime after the other. Nothing serious though until he escaped and now is being linked to shooting the State Trooper.

Even now all he is doing is robbing places that are not occupied looking for food and such. But there are reports he has guns and that has the police on their toes. He has been hiding out for a while but keeps leaving a trail for the police to follow. If not for the trooper being shot and Bucky being sought for questioning, I doubt the police would care as much. But when that trooper was shot then everyone in a uniform is here looking for him now and he is all over the news.

 

[Soundguy]

Speaking of ATV riders.

I was out at my pasture putting out grass seed with my 8n, and say a sheriff pull over a kid on an atv up the road. Riding by it was easy to see the cop was giving the father ( who musta walked from the house ) heck.. etc.

Out here.. the atv riders tear up everything... they try to get in your pastures.. blow donuts.. everything. I'm not a mean person.. but I wouldn't feel bad if they got fined, and had the atv impounded... the kids around here are destructive.

Soundguy

 

[meledward23]

Soundguy,

It's not just ATV's or the people that operate them. It's most people.... Once there was a thing called respect. Today respect is little and far between.

Many ATV riders dont respect other's prpoerty rights. Most people dont respect others. Many people dont respect your time. Ever have a friend that is always late ? You wait around for them all the time. My time is valuable, but that friend doesnt think my time is valuable, he doesnt respect me.

There are many instances of this in day to day life. Most of it comes from a general deceny to respect others. 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is sort of a funny comment. Most ATV riders would say you could do donuts on their property if they had any... Most people that are late would be okay if you were late... Most people are blind to their disrespect....

Hmm very off topic arent I?

 

[Soundguy]

I agree. When I was a kid.. your parent wouldn't buy you an atv ( or dirt bike / go cart) unless you had room on YOUR property to ride it. We wouldn't think of tearing up someone else's property.

These parents now, live on little 1/4ac lots.. get their kids these 'toys, so they can zoom up and down the farm roads.. run horses and eat up the right of way and any open pasture land.

I had to put up a 3 wire barb wire fence a few years ago on a pasture I am renovating just to keep the little monstors out. It adds a little agravation factor tying to work the pasture with the fence/gate.. but i had to do it. The rusts they left in my pasture was good at taking out brush hog shear pins.. and cost me 15 minutes down time per pop. and then i had to smooth the ruts out.
So like I said.. I hope there was a fine and impoundment.. perhaps some juve court date set.. heck.. hope the irresponsible parent gets a fine too.

( can ya tell this issue iritates me?? )

Soundguy

 

[shvl73]

I had to put up some fence to keep them out as well. I would have much preferred a minefield but that wouldn't have been legal. The prevailing thoughts today appear to be, where it has the ability to go, it is allowable for me to ride it. If you live next to any state park land where they are considering allowing atv use, fight it for all you're worth. They will take the land they are allowed to ride on and triple it with damaging tresspassing onto private proprtry.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Wow...that is a sad, but head shaking story. The fact that they found drugs on them answers some of the "why" part.

As far as the cop being improperly trained....that might be the case, but if I was knowingly being dragged by someone for a full mile, I'd say that person had zero regard for my life and would do what was necessary to "get away", and that apparently would include killing me. I'm thinking I may have shot the fool myself if in that situation. Not that I'm a trained cop, but in hind sight here......Who knows if he was driving close to trees to dislodge him or if his legs were getting caught in the tires. The only thing I can imagine is that they were all boozed up and on something. That is such an unnecessary situation. I guess the first fool who ran will have to live with that for the rest of his life. I don't blame the cop in the least...it may have been resolved another way with warning shots or shots to the tires, but can you just imagine how the cop felt being literally dragged screaming for a mile! I think he did what he thought was right and how do you "think" in a situation like that?

Unbelieveable stupidity performed by borderline criminals on booze and drugs. What can one say....You just got to hope to god you don't raise a kid like that.

 

[OWDouglas]

Robert, I didn't read all the threads in this forum, so I don't know if it's been covered. I think this whole situation erupted because the guy who was killed was afraid of the ATV being conviscated and paying a few fines, and I don't care what the Troopers say, I think that cop thought it might have been Ralph "Bucky" Phillips (for those that don't know, he is an escaped con who allegedly shot a State Trooper).
I blame the ATV rider because he initiated the situation by running while there was a man-hunt for a convict who reportedly stole an ATV. I may be totally wrong because I was not there and do not know all the information(you living out that way and may know a lot more that I do) but this is just my opinion on it. No matter what it was just a terrible tragedy all around.

 

[MarkStewart]

I must be out of the loop.. someone fill me in on the who/when/where on this bucky fellow?

Soundguy

Did a quick google search seems he's on America's Most Wanted list.
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=39219

 

[LBrown59]

He may have tryed to fire only a warning shot so the guy would stop. .

Accuracy not guaranteed while being dragged along by an ATV,

 

[goodoleboy]

Be careful what you say about that trooper. We were not their to judge his actions..

 

[LBrown59]

Be careful what you say about that trooper. We were not their to judge his actions..

Troopers actions right or wrong did not give the guy the right to drag him a mile with the ATV!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Accuracy not guaranteed while being dragged along by an ATV,

Police in these parts are instructed NOT to fire warning shots. If a situation warrants using a gun, it's "shoot with intent to stop perpetrator". In other words, hit the target or keep the gun holstered. A good friend, who is a cop, had to use deadly force on a subject (about 5 years ago) He did what he was taught at the Police Academy. 3 shots in rapid succession, directly at the criminals chest. He was chastized by the public until the final report was released. It was only then that the public found out the subject was carrying a Glock 9mm under his coat.He was reaching for it when Terry shot first. The entire episode took place when the subject was trying to get into his ex-wife's car. (at her place of employment) My friend is still tormented by what he was forced to do.

Point being, don't put a cop in the position where he needs to make that split second decision, and he won't make it, right OR wrong. (Because they will defend themselves)

And as I'm typing away, I see a neighbors kid going down our road on a Honda 4-wheeler. Me opinion there? Where's the parents when they need to be teaching their kids right from wrong.

Respect, responsibility, and common decentcy are lost on our next generation.

 

[meledward23]

Were are the parents? Well, if they are people two doors down they are racing their four wheelers up and down our street with nothing but short shorts on (male individual, not a sight you want)....

The kid is trying to keep up on his mini motorcycle.... Also not wearing safety gear...

My neighbors and I believe in Darwin, so we are waiting....


Sometimes he keeps it on his property.... Vroom, errr (stop), vrom, err, vroom, err... Yep racing a four wheeler 125' forward, stop , turn around, race back, turn around....

How does guy have a job that pays enough for him to live near me?