Will it Land

[ray66v]

If the wheels are on the ground it has landed, thats why they call it LANDing. The wing still flying has nothing to do with the question. Coming to a stop would be very simple you would apply enough power to equalize the force of the wind and you will stop forward progress. Thats how you could move forward, hover or back up. It would be a simple matter of adjusting the throttle.
Yes, its true you would play he11 taxing back to the hangar, but that is not the point.

 

[MrJimi]

How about we all cross T's and dot I's here.. He said land and not how, so lets all go with that..
I could land it. A Cessna would stall around 45 MPH or less with full flaps, I know, I had a 152 for about 500 hours worth , great time builder till I got the Mooney
carry on Gents

 

[ray66v]

The stall speed is irrelevant, a plane does not have to be stalled to land.

 

[Runner]

By the way, anyone who hasn't been to this web site might get a kick out of the videos:

General Aviation Videos

If you scroll down to the one called "STOL Contest" you might get an idea of what such a landing could look like.

 

[turnkey4099]

If the wheels are on the ground it has landed, thats why they call it LANDing. The wing still flying has nothing to do with the question. Coming to a stop would be very simple you would apply enough power to equalize the force of the wind and you will stop forward progress. Thats how you could move forward, hover or back up. It would be a simple matter of adjusting the throttle.
Yes, its true you would play he11 taxing back to the hangar, but that is not the point.

The problem with the stopping is. After stopping (still facing the wind), the wing is still flying and you will shortly be upside down.

I even have my doubts about being _able_ to stop seeing as how there is no downforce on the wheels to apply braking force.

Harry K

 

[MrJimi]

The problem with the stopping is. After stopping (still facing the wind), the wing is still flying and you will shortly be upside down.

I even have my doubts about being _able_ to stop seeing as how there is no downforce on the wheels to apply braking force.

Harry K

Thats easy, just hold down pressure on the yoke, That is taught to all pilots in initial training

 

[turnkey4099]

If the wheels are on the ground it has landed, thats why they call it LANDing. The wing still flying has nothing to do with the question. Coming to a stop would be very simple you would apply enough power to equalize the force of the wind and you will stop forward progress. Thats how you could move forward, hover or back up. It would be a simple matter of adjusting the throttle.
Yes, its true you would play he11 taxing back to the hangar, but that is not the point.

Ah but the problem with stopping is: still facing the wind and wheels stopped the wing is still flying and you will be upside down in short order.

I even have my doubts about even being able to stop as with the wing flying there is insufficient force on the wheels for braking.

As the problem is stated if you did "land" the best you would do would be moving backwards with the wheels on the ground, any forward motion and you are back in the air. Exactly match power and headwind, you are essentially hovering.

Harry K

I can see nothing but either a touch/go (backwards) or crash.

Harry K

 

[Z-Michigan]

As a practical matter, all trikes, but especially high wing Cessnas, need to land on the mains with the front wheel touching last. Touching the front first is a good way to bend the firewall and have a long A&P visit (182's are the most notorious for this). If you could descend vertically into a 100mph headwind, with your airspeed therefore 100mph, you would be in a serious nose-down attitude. You would also have a hard time keeping your descent rate from getting too fast, but that's controllable. However, I don't see how you wouldn't be landing nose first, which is bad for the plane and for control. I'm not sure which direction you would flip in, but I agree with Harry that some sort of unhealthy flip is very likely.

 

[laurencen]

So, we know it would land but be nearly impossible to land on the main gear nose up as it will rapidly climb, maybe land going backwards ?. It would seem 50 mph backwards one could get the correct attiude to land

 

[ray66v]

Guys! COME ON! You match the speed of the wind + enough speed to come down to the runway then you reduce power and you fly it down to the runway eventually matching the speed of the wild and touch down on the runway. You don't have to stall it, you don't have to land it nose high. You land it flat as a result of slowly flying down to the ground. Then you hold the controls exactly the way they were on the decent and as long as you have enough fuel you could sit there, (stationary), all day. NO BIG DEAL. How can you have trouble keeping your speed down with a 100 mph head wind! A head wind slows the plane down. A 100 mph head wind slows the plane down 100 mph. If it will fly at 50 mph, and you have a 100 mph head wind, you can be flying so slow your going backwards along the ground. If the wind is 100 mph and your air speed is 100 mph you are flying stationary (hovering). Fly the approach at 101 mph and your ground speed is 1 mph. Yes you CAN land any airplane FLAT and not harm it if you are a good pilot. Most students land flat half the time, (by accident).
Yes, you will have to leave the power at that final setting, or go backwards down the runway. Yes you are not going to be able to taxi anywhere but into the wind. The question was WILL IT LAND. The answer is YES, but, I guess I might be the only one here that should land into a strong headwind.
FYI: There are guys out there that actually have landed into gusting winds 1/2 that speed. I know one that did do it in a 150.

 

[RonMar]

Guys! COME ON! You match the speed of the wind + enough speed to come down to the runway then you reduce power and you fly it down to the runway eventually matching the speed of the wild and touch down on the runway. You don't have to stall it, you don't have to land it nose high. You land it flat as a result of slowly flying down to the ground. Then you hold the controls exactly the way they were on the decent and as long as you have enough fuel you could sit there, (stationary), all day. NO BIG DEAL. How can you have trouble keeping your speed down with a 100 mph head wind! A head wind slows the plane down. A 100 mph head wind slows the plane down 100 mph. If it will fly at 50 mph, and you have a 100 mph head wind, you can be flying so slow your going backwards along the ground. If the wind is 100 mph and your air speed is 100 mph you are flying stationary (hovering). Fly the approach at 101 mph and your ground speed is 1 mph. Yes you CAN land any airplane FLAT and not harm it if you are a good pilot. Most students land flat half the time, (by accident).
Yes, you will have to leave the power at that final setting, or go backwards down the runway. Yes you are not going to be able to taxi anywhere but into the wind. The question was WILL IT LAND. The answer is YES, but, I guess I might be the only one here that should land into a strong headwind.
FYI: There are guys out there that actually have landed into gusting winds 1/2 that speed. I know one that did do it in a 150.

The problem is not that simple. You could approach as you described, but with enough power on to have 0 ground speed in a 100 MPH headwind(aircraft flying at 100 MPH airspeed), the aircraft nosewheel would touch first. As soon as the mains try and touch down, the increase in wing angle of attack as the fuselage pitches up, and the resultant increase in lift would cause the plane to lift off again(and slow down). And of course anyone who has had any training in a C-150, knows that you are beaten severely about the head and shoulders by the flight instructor for abusing the nose wheel with excessive nose down pitch attitude. It is the weak link in the landing gear and therfore it is always the first off and the last to touch down.

You don't have to lift the nose wheel off the ground in a C-150 to takeoff. Your takeoff run is long, and the wheel speed is high, but full power down the runway and eventually all 3 will come off together.

If the wing is not stalled it is what?... flying. If the wing is flying, the airplane is flying. You could touch down, but you couldn't stay down(land) on the gear with the given plane and circumstances.

 

[ray66v]

the aircraft nosewheel would touch first.

The nose wheel does not have to touch first. And even if it did it would not have to be enough to make any real difference.
Picture this; you descend to a matter of inches above the runway. You reduce your power setting to near zero ground speed. This will make the landing a simple matter of milking it down until the wheels are on the ground. You could descend at 1" per minute, {you can't get any flatter than that}, if you wanted, (simple trim adjustment). You would touch down so softly you might not even realize that you have landed.
The reason you don't have to lift that nose to take off in a 150 is when the trim is set for take off it is slightly nose high. On the approach the plane simply could be trimmed the for landing eliminating the problem.
You do not have to stay down on the ground to make a landing. Have you ever heard of a touch and go? Each touch and go is a LANDING your log book.
I am not a beginner, I have been flying since 1976 and have hundreds of hours in each of the C150, C152, and C172. I specialize in helping students that can't learn to land. I fly a C150 3 to 4 hrs a week. I also hold records for shortest landings at out airport. Including a runway with tall trees on one end.

 

[JoeL4330]

This is all totally theoretical, of course. You'd have to be Bob Hoover to be able to actually perform a maneuver like that, and once you "flew" the thing onto the ground, you couldn't actually stop or park it or anything. If you tried to actually stop or turn to taxi, the wind would just blow the aircraft away.

"Theoretical??" Refit the Cessna with a different wing, call it a "Helio-Courier" --used by us during the Vietnam conflict ...hover, land backward

 

[Runner]

Maybe, but they didn't do it in 100mph winds. (I don't think??)

Thought about this some more, and maybe the way to make the thing stay "landed" would be that, once you get the tires on the ground and the groundspeed to zero, have a ground crew run out and attach the plane to the ground with cables. Then, theoretically, you could, shut it off, get out and leave it.

 

[Runner]

Hey, I just noticed, that was post #150 for me. Coincidence??? You be the judge....

 

[ray66v]

The guy I know who landed a C150 in high winds was on a trip and had to land for fuel. The wind was down the runway, so he landed. The FBO had 2 extra guys come out and help hold the wings from rocking while they fueled it. He said even though the winds were high the air was smooth so he took back off and continued home with a record ground speed.

 

[laurencen]

Heres a twist, lets say you have a 100mph headwind and there was a underside to the conveyer, could the Cessna land upside down,

 

[daTeacha]

I don't know that a high wing plane would be structurally sound or aerodynamically stable during inverted flight. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be something that is FAA approved for flying that way. Then again, I'm not a pilot so I could be 100% wrong.

 

[MrJimi]

Some high wing planes are rated for aerobatic manuvers and inverted is one of them

Cessna 150 Aerobat

 

[Z-Michigan]

Standard C150 won't do inverted flight - need flop tubes in the fuel and oil systems and some other inverted mods. I assume the C150 aerobat would work.