will it take off?

   / will it take off? #681  
I stopped in to see that kid's parents last night. He is now working for Google. Sounds like a tough job. They handed him an envelope with numerous $100 bills in it as a Christmas gift. They pick him up at his door in a company shuttle and deliver him to work. They provide a free gourmet quality lunch every day. They pretty much looked over his resume', called him and told him he would be very welcome to come work for them. He asked what he would do. They said they didn't know, but if he'd come on board, they would pretty much let him work on whatever project he wanted.

Life is not always tough.
 
   / will it take off? #682  
Rich, One of the jobs I got was like that (not the lunches and ride but the definition of my duties) I went to a place called Digital Development Corporation (owned by National General.) I was interviewed and told by that particular manager he had nothing for me that I was not overqualified for but he knew someone who was not looking for anyone but needed me. He went and told the guy to come go through the motions and hire me. It was a fun job but I should have held out for lunches! One VP defined my job as to do whatever I had to do to make things better. My authority was whatever it required to accomplish the first part up to and including his authority.

Quite different from being a Government lab rat.

Pat
 
   / will it take off? #683  
patrick_g said:
Rich, One of the jobs I got was like that (not the lunches and ride but the definition of my duties) I went to a place called Digital Development Corporation (owned by National General.) I was interviewed and told by that particular manager he had nothing for me that I was not overqualified for but he knew someone who was not looking for anyone but needed me. He went and told the guy to come go through the motions and hire me. It was a fun job but I should have held out for lunches! One VP defined my job as to do whatever I had to do to make things better. My authority was whatever it required to accomplish the first part up to and including his authority.

Quite different from being a Government lab rat.

Pat

So it all came down to lunch? Happy New Year!!!















It still won't fly.
 
   / will it take off? #684  
TomKioti said:
So it all came down to lunch? Happy New Year!!! It still won't fly.

Tom, The best "FREE" lunch I ever got was provided by British Aerospace at their London based executive dining facility. They sure put on a great spread.

Still won't fly, huh? Lube the axle bearings and check the mags!

Regarding being a stubborn maveric... One of my personal heroes is Galileo Galalei who had quite a reputaion for being a stubborn maveric. On the ocassion of being persuaded by friends to recant his heretical position on the earth not being the center of the universe when questioined by the Pope to avoid being sentanced to death... He was reputed to have muttered under his breath as he left the Papal audience, "It moves!"

Pat :cool:
 
   / will it take off? #686  
Egon said:
There is no such thing as a free lunch. One must pay the dues required prior to receiving what is called a " Free Lunch " :D

Yeah but at one time the only "dues" you had to pay to get a free lunch was to buy a nickel beer.

Pat :cool:
 
   / will it take off? #687  
Still had to have what it took to make a nickel. Big money at one time!:D

Besides if the nickel didn't keep comming the Barkeep seemed to reduce the availability of the "Free Lunch "

Course there are Dumpsters!:D For Dining out for some of us.:D
 
   / will it take off? #688  
I did the hot vs cold water freezing experiment. Hot water freezes faster.

I used a plastic ice tray, in which I filled a block of 12 ice cube slots. A 3x2 part was filled hot and a 3x2 block was filled cold. One 60C hot and one 4C cold were filled to the same volume [22cc] and they were each monitored near their center by a 30gauge thermocouple. Each monitored cube slot was adjacent to others filled with water of the same temperature and did not border on any filled with the other T. The 8 cuft freezer was -21C. (About -6F.) Ice tray centered. Moving air.
Heres what happened:

  • At the start the hot was 50C and the cold 6C
  • The cold cooled to 4C and began to surface ice
  • By the time the cold got to 0C the hot was around 5C
  • A few minutes afterward the hot reached zero
  • Both monitored cubes held at zero for maybe30 minutes
  • Then, the hot cube T started to fall
  • Nineteen minutes later the cold cube T started to fall

The point that the cube is fully frozen is marked by this drop below 0C. I was amazed. I never imagined the time difference would be this definitive. I am at the point now of sorting out the contributing parameters. I want to electronically log the data, but it will be a learning exercise with the new loggers. Compared to the old ones the new seem to prove the adage that "progress integrated over time = 0". In this case I think it is negative. We are going to try to resurrect the old ones. - - Anyway, I want to weigh the resultant cubes. We have a good scale, but its not as straightforward as one might think. The cubes start to gain weight as soon as they come out in the room. Condensation you know. Ill post progress in a week or so.
Larry
 
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   / will it take off? #689  
Larry, Thanks for posting the results here. This is sort of like a peer reviewed but not refereed journal pub, sort of...

What were the disolved gasses (identity and quantity) in the two samples, hot and cold? The hot water most likely had way less disolved gasses. I don't claim we should use "de-aired" tripple distilled water and can see no problem with using tap water but should the hot and cold samples come from the same stock. I don't want to tell you how to run the experiment, just point out some things that could be accounted for.

As the calorimetry is dependent on the mass of the water and its shape (effects surface area - aspect ratios and surface to volume stuff) and since the density is different at different temps, don't we need to make some adjustments? Equal volumes at different temps is not equal quantities of water.

None of my comments are negative criticism just some observations. Hot water typically has way less disolved gasses than some cold water, depending on source. It might be interesting to use both hot and cold water with similar levels of disolved gasses.

One way to get similar samples would be to start with hot very hot water, even boiling and pour off two batches into containers that you fill completely or very nearly so and cover the top with a cover that wold permit pressure to escape but not let air in. For example, you could lay a piece of glass over the open top of a container. Then later when reheating the "HOT" sample in a microwave oven the container will not be broken if the heating is a tad too robust. the other "COLD" sample could be chilled in the cooler with its cover in place to avoid excess contact with air since as the sample coolls its abiulity to disolve atmospheric gasses goes up rapidly.

The disolved gas thing may be interesting but the original problem statement (MYTH) seems to assume no special effort to be made beyond using conveniently available hot water and cold water which implies tap water. It just might be interesting to see what the effects were.

Interesting concept. Integrated over time the improvement is ZERO. I have seen this, a lot. Some things get way more complicated, often beyond the understanding of untrained individuals and members of the priesthood are required to use the NEW IMPROVED AND LEMON SCENTED method and machines but at the end of the day they accomplish nothing more than the original method applied by mortals.

So far I have a week of spare time invested (wasted??) in trying to transfer digital video from a new camera to a new computer to be edited in a new editing program. MS has "upgraded" the OS and it will not talk to the camera. They know of the problem that they caused when changing the speed of the IEEE1394 (Firewire) port and issued a fix. After giving up on my own paultry abilities trying to install the fix, I enlisted MS tech support, in both Canada and India. So far I have nearly 4 hrs of phone time with techs and one hour of it they controlled my computer remotely. Got the patch installed but can't comply with the rest of the instructions as files to which they refer do not exist on my installation of their OS. Supposedly this is simple plug and play stuff that just any Dick and or Jane could easily use successfully. Sony is no help even though every one of these cameras that they sell could put the user through the same hassle trying to transfer video out of the camera to a PC running the popular windows XP. Anyone have a good number for Dick or Jane, I'd like to hire them.

Pat ;)
 
   / will it take off? #690  
yeah Pat, were thinking alike on these things. Thanks for the ideas. I will eventually incorporate them, or variances of, in order to get a good handle on the heat budget. The degree of this effect has surprised me and it overrides my concern for a small experimental error I noted. - acouple extra drops were included in the hot cube and I went ahead anyway. This would have favored freezing the cold. Another - placement of T sensed cubes relative to one another in the airflow - requires investigation. Shouldnt be much because environmental chambers are contrived to assure uniform T via universal air movement.
Larry
 

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