Snow Will PT 60" Blade remove snow for business?

[RickeyL]

Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Curious if I get one of these if it would save me some money on my snow removal bill for my bowling center parking lot?
Most of the snows we have are usually 2" or less with the exception of a big snow storm. I live in Iowa and was just interested if I bought the blade if an hour or two I could push it all to the sides? Lot is probably 150 x 300, maybe bigger?

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Rick, I think you could definitely save money clearing your parking lot. Not sure how long it would take to actually "pay" for the PT, but I'm sure you'll be using in for many other chores as well. If you're primarily going to be clearing pavement, you might consider either the optional rubber lip strip, or making something similar yourself. I cleared my 1/4 mile street several times this past winter - usually took less that 20 minutes. The only time I had any problem was after one storm which left 3-4 inches of icy sleet which was very hard to clear. As MossRoad and others will attest, you can get moving pretty fast with the snow blade and move a lot of stuff in a hurry.

Scott

 

[bubenberg]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Yess! Just look what i was able to do under Cheap Snow Plow ...... good luck /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Rick

Done a great deal of snow plowing in my day and while I love the PT, it's a terrible snowplower. If you're not plowing professionally, it will probably meet your needs, and, of course, then you have a machine for other uses. Versatility is where the PT shines.

The PT is lousey at snowplowing because of several reasons:
1) plowing in the float position the unit has a tendency to "climb" up the loader arms lifting the front tires off the ground. While the operator can compensate for this climbing by traveling slowly and going in and out of the float position it's annoying and not condusive to good productivity that a pro needs.
2) The plow is mounted (obviously) way out on the front of the loader arms. This position gives the plow so much leverage when pushing snow at an angle the very very very very often you can't even "crab" enough to push the snow to the side. (the snow pushes the PT to the other side).

I just plow using only the bucket, which for my sizable driveway is much more effective than the plow. (I sold my plow)

I have plowed professionally and for residential plowing far and away (Really by far!) the best unit I've ever plowed with is a Steiner. You can't believe the snow it will push and at very high speed and it's so small you turn around right in the driveway and blow the opposite direction instead of backing out. Besides the 60" plow I had the 48" snowblower and I would often do a driveway using both since changing is only 2 minutes. IN MY SINCERE OPINION, the Steiner on average for residential driveways is twice as fast as a conventional pickup AND does a much much much better job.

So, why did I sell my Steiner and buy a PT?
Versatility
Loader
Hydraulic drive of attachments
much more power (I have the 1460)
much bigger(size matters to me)

Hope this has been helpful.

PS
I love my PT

PPS
I would buy a Ventrac before a Steiner

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Richard:
I have the 72" blade on my 1845, with the gauge wheels. My prior experience with snow removal was only with a 3 point scraper blade, pulling or backing, and a front end loader on a 2240 John Deere. (I have 15 minutes experience in a pickup with blade.) Compared to those, the 1845 with blade is a superb snow clearing machine. 425 owners report that theirs do well, and Bubenberg does commercial clearing with his.
Although your observations are right about avoiding climbing the blade, I have the rubber lip, so it happens seldom, and never if the gauge wheels are adjusted well. As to the snow kicking the machine sideways, that certainly happened when we had 25", but I found I could blast through it and once moving could keep moving, except where trees, fences, etc constricted things. For the big drifts, the bucket was better, but for any snowfall up to a six inches, I can do a road with a high-speed pass each way.
Your experience with the Steiner may be exactly what Hans raves about with the 425. It is small and maneuverable. He clears shopping center parking lots commercially faster than the pickups with blades. For the first couple of years, he used a bucket only. This past year, he adapted a blade, with trip springs, which are an advantage over the PT rigid mount.
You're undoubtedly right that the PTs aren't the best snow plow machines on the planet, but they are certainly the best ones that are also loaders, post hole diggers, tillers, mowers, trenchers, stump grinders, cranes, ... etc.
To echo your thought, I love my 1845. I only occasionally wish I had the weight and power of the 1460, and I occasionally wish I had the lightness and maneuverability of the 425.
Why is it we're never quite satisfied?
Bottom line, I think the PT can hold its own plowing commercially, and deliver a lot of other capability as a bonus.

 

[Schultz]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Out of curiosity, what exactly made the Steiner the better snowplow machine than the PT? When you say the unit (blade?) climbs up the loader arms. Could you explain this in a little more detail?

Tim

 

[MossRoad]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

I think if you get into wet heavy snow and have the plow angled straight and the plow tipped forward a bit and the loader arms in float, the plow will climb up over the pile of snow, just like a pickup truck plow if the trip springs trip. I had that happen once or twice, so I adjusted the guage wheels so that I could keep the blade tipped back just a tad and still ride on the wheels just a little. It cleared my driveway very well the last two winters, although we never had any brutal, deep stuff like years past.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

(Richard will tell you what he means) - The mount on the Steiner is totally different - it is not a loader arm type mount - I assume that this - combined with other aspects of the Steiner make it a better plow (I can't comment since I didn't test it plowing) - I know that the Steiner is a much better mowing machine (I did test it for that - it is better than the 425 & 1845) for various reasons -size and the way the mower mounts - For certain jobs the loader arm mount is not the best system. Also the body is compact vs the long rear half of the 1845 which gets in the way when mowing.

I did experience some of Richard is talking about when plowing - but overall was satisfied with the 1845 for plowing - I just adjusted the tilt of took it out of float when it did it and was not too bothered by it - maybe it would be a pain in a commercial use. But I don't have anywhere near the size drive Richard has.

Why I chose the PT instead of the Steiner was the many reasons Richard stated - the Steiner is not really a loader (they have an attachment - only lifts 500lbs ) and it does not have the weight for pushing / grading etc.- also all hydraulic attachments for the steiner like a post hole digger has its own mount and a belt drives a pump (each attachment has its own) so I found all this a draw back - on the 1845 and especially the 1460 you can run standard skid steer attachments - no chance on a Steiner.

Richard I'm sure you didn't have any problems pushing the snow with the 1460??

In my opinion - again the PT wins hands down on the overall score.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Hey Richard - just curious what is it about the Ventrac that makes it better than the Steiner? - I have looked at the website but I didn't see the obvious difference -

By the way I was not saying that the PT is a bad mower - just that the Steiner is a top, top mower - (thats the primary design in golf courses) - also it depends on the property - for large areas especially hills I would pick the PT all day long



Just wondering my fellow PTers, if you don't use the machine primarily to mow - why wouldn't the 2445 or 2460 be the choice?
Lift height and backhoe???? If you don't need a low profile machine for mowing?

 

[RickeyL]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Do any of you guys have any experience with front blades for pickups. I have one that someone left behind in a rental house..... everything is there except for the unit that goes on the pickup that it attatches to. Anyhow, I don't have a 4x4 pickup to attatch it to anyhow, but was wondering if I could attatch it to a PT mounting bracket for use with a PT425. My parking lot has a lot of asphalt patches that are a little high and some curbs that the springs and trip device of one of these would definately be nice. I really don't know much about them..... would I even need the hydralics for such a mounting and do they have the tilt? Any help would be appreciated...... Rick
I'm still trying to justify buying a 425 and if I could pull this off to use it for my bowling alley parking lot in the winter would be a definate plus. Like some of you have said.... for deeper stuff, you can always go to the bucket but then again, I would have to get the bigger bucket also.

 

[MossRoad]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Well, a parking lot is a lot different than a driveway or sidewalks at a mall/shopping center. I've had a pickup mounted plow and I have a PT425 with a plow. In a driveway or sidewalk situation, or close to buildings, the PT425 will run circles around a pickup truck all day long. It is quicker to turn around, easier to navigate with, the plow is smaller and can get into tighter places and it can pile higher, narrower piles(plus you can pop on the bucket for deep stuff like drifts between buildings and under covered walkways, etc...). However, from my experience plowing the tarmac at airports, out in an open parking lot with no obstructions, any pickup truck worth its weight will run over the PT425. It can go much faster with a bigger blade and can go through deeper stuff just because of its weight and horspower. It can also pile high, but the piles und up being wide. The height comes from bashing the piles at the botton, forcing stuff up, whereas with the PT, you can tip the blade back as you lift, pushing the snow higher without bashing the pile. Easier on the machine and your guts.

So, I'd say it depends on the shape of the parking lot. If it is long and narrow, the PT might do OK. If you have lots of sidewalks that a pickup won't fit on, the PT will be super. If you have driveways, the PT will be outstanding. But if you have a large, square parking lot the pickup would be my choice.

As for adapting a pickup plow to a PT425, the adapter plate is $100.00. The fittings and hoses to adapt it will probably be another $100. I don't know if the angle cylinders on the pickup plow are single or double actings, so I don't know how to plumb it. Anyway, you'd have $200 in it and it might be too heavy for the PT425 to lift well. The new PT plow is under $500.00 isn't it? Might be better off going with factory in this case.

Hope this helps and just my opinions. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

The Ventrac is built by the Steiner brothers who designed and built the original steiner. They are back building machines now that their non-compete is over fromthe sale of Steiner to Ransome. They have put passion and inginuity into the design and while the steiner and ventrac are essentially the same machine (the implements are interchangeable) the ventrac has several features that make it much much "newer" and operator friendly.

You're right-- the steiner is a much much better mower than the PT. But, the steiner is still not as good as a "dedicated" mower. Again the PT shines with versatility. But I believe if you're a pro lawn mower going from lawn to lawn (or like me - paying people by the hour to do it) you want speed, manuverability, and quality of cut. For that their are better machines than the PT or even the Steiner. Ditto when snow plowing, except that the steiner/ventrac is/are the best plowing machine I've ever used for residential size jobs- and I've done too much of it

As I see it most PTers on this forum use their machines as home owners where speed and productivity are less important than versatility. And those that use their machines commercially are skewed more toward the landscape business. When one compares the PT to a cut (Compact utility tractor) the PT wins hands down -- not even close. Sorry- big orange and big green. I've owned and loved your machines (CUTs) but IN MY OPINION it's still no contest. But I believe that most professional applications need speed, manuverability and quality of job more than versatility, hence IN MY OPINION the PT loses in those applications

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Charlie

There is no one who posts on this forum that I respect more than you.

But in my opinion, plowing (not spending some time out in the driveway playing with our PTs which we all love to do! Remember, I plow professionally) but plowing with the gauge wheels on the pt designed plow is a joke. You mentioned the need to have the wheels properly adjusted. I agree. But the wheels are set for a specific pitch angle (not side to side angle) of the blade to the boom. IF this angle is changed the wheels have either no use or the blade doesn't touch the ground. And from a practical usage point of view the operator is always changing that angle because of the way the dual stick operates. The operator spends so much time finding and "tweeking" the pitch of the blade to get the wheels at the right angle/height that productivity and spacial awareness (for safety and speed) is lessened significantly. Also, every time the right/left angle of the plow is changed more adjustment needed!

There were several problems (situations I didn't like) with the rubber lip. When plowing at an angle or when using down pressure it was way too easy for the corner of the blade to gouge the driveway (very unhappy customers). Of course, if the operator takes his time and has the guage wheels set properly gouging won't happen.

Comparing the PT to the steiner for plowing is like comparing the PT to a zero turn for mowing. I still love my PT!

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Richard:
As I said in my prior post, I have little basis for comparison in snow plowing. The 1845 is so much better than a back blade on a conventional tractor that I can declare it good. For plowing and grading, one thing I am toying with cobbling up is a tilt adapter, with a cylinder for grading but perhaps with a tilt float for snow where the gauge wheels could contribute more than they do now to keeping the blade parallel to the ground with the rubber lip touching. It does take some fiddling with angle and tilt to keep it right, which slows you down.
I certainly did not mean to suggest that the PT is a great dedicated snow moving machine, but I do think that the 425 will do fine for a bowling facility parking lot particularly if you don't let it get too deep. It may not be the fastest commercial unit out there, but it has surprising capability for a 25 hp machine. That's based primarily on reports from MossRoad, Bubenberg and other 425 operators, along with my 1845 experience. (I assume with the 1460 you have enough power and traction just to float the bucket and power through with snow streaming off both sides. I can do that with light stuff, but the wet 12"+ type stopped me when the bucket got full.)

My PT mower is a 72" rough cut. If you look at the blade experiments that John Coxon and I did, you'll see we weren't satisfied at first, and still can improve. But, it mows pastures faster and more easily than our CUTs. Now, towing a 5 foot Acrease, I can compete in speed with the smaller batwings, but for my lawn, I got an Exmark hydro 48" walk behind. I certainly agree it's a better mower, but the guys who keep the blades sharp and the height correct on the PT 425 get some pretty results too.

I doubt you and I have any disagreement at all. The Power Trac is the only machine I've owned that routinely gets the reaction: "Weren't you just mowing with that? How did you get the loader on so fast? What the hell is that thing?"
And Power Trac doesn't even mind if you weld some modification to it.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Charlie

We agree.

The PT is the best all around machine made

PERIOD !

Perfect-- NO!

But way ahead of what ever is in second place.

BEST

Richard

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

guys you didn't comment on my thought concerning the 2445 or 2460 if you are not going to use the PT as a mower - did anyone try out these machines just curious

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

Ed: I got the 1845 because steep slope mowing was my main objective. I never even climbed on the 2445. I hope Wasabi will chime in, because I know he likes his 2445.

 

[bubenberg]

Re: Will PT 60\" Blade remove snow for business?

well, i appreciate your thoughts, your liking for steiner and bigger pts .... but please don't tell me that i don't know what professional snowplowing is, unless you have been around areas like my native country and Jackson Hole (Bondurant, USA) altitudes between 3000 to 7000 feet above sea level .... where snow plowing is a way of living for up to five month out of each year.......
and yes, i would have loved to have had, a pt 425 to remove the snow out of the corners i had to remove it COMMERCIALLY.

would it not be silly if i would compare pts to a locomotives or road snowblowers that remove the snow on one of the spurs on the orient express lines or the mountain passes in the Alps .... which seems what is happening here.

and by the way quite a bit has to do with the way the operator is going about his business ... not always can you push straight .... with any size machine .... even the aforementioned locomotives, sometimes have to do more than one passage to get the job done.

right now i am making canoes so i can mow (commercially) the large properties i have not mowed for the last ten days for my acrease and pt 425

good luck with your much bigger machine which we have too but i think this is the wrong forum to talk about large tractors?!?!?!?!?!