Winter traction.....

[bp fick]

As I understand it, on a 4x4, the front wheels are smaller, thus to "keep up" or actually, keep ahead of the rear wheels, they need to spin faster.

Front tractor 4x4 axles can be broken if abused beyond their design. Chaining up the fronts tend to prevent the spin that is needed in the front to prevent binding. This is why chaining rears is OK and chaining all four is debated, but likely OK, while chaining only the fronts is highly discouraged by most.

It's your machine, just make an informed decision.

 

[chilibit]

I follow you I think.

In 2WD the two axles are not linked. So no issue.

In 4X4 they are. And I understand the fronts being equal to or slightly ahead of the rears to maintain steering.

Then it seems that there is a natural bind proportional to the speed differential that is built into the design. And indeed we are aware of it whenever we are on a hard, high traction surface. You scuff the fronts in turns and I guess on the straights as well but that is much harder to see. In a field you can almost ignore it. On ice or snow it is largely a non-issue.

In my case a dramatic loss of traction may easily mean the loss of the tractor and perhaps a life. That changes things for me.

In 4X4 there is always a mismatch, and the cheap solution employed by the manufacturers is that something will slip to relieve the bind. And it does. A lockable center might be ideal but costly and mostly unnecessary.

How does this sound to you? If chains are mounted, stay off pavement unless in 2WD or if the surface is covered in snow or ice. Since I plow downhill I usually don't need 4WD because the tractor, loader, and rear blade provide enough weight to push with. But braking will get your attention in a hurry. So actually plowing which I do backwards with a floating blade and with a tooth bar on the front bucket poised to jam down as my anchor is pretty easy. The front chains in 2WD would would be on the uphill end and the tooth bar bucket is my bailout if things go sour. Coming back up to make another pass requires 4X4 for sure. Then the traction advantage switches to the front wheels with the chains and the rears will slip to release the bind.

Bear with me please. I know what you said. I want to find a solution and if looking dumb leads me to a better one, so be it. I need braking. And I want the best traction on the up hill end so I don't switch ends and go over.

 

[Oleozz]

As I understand it, on a 4x4, the front wheels are smaller, thus to "keep up" or actually, keep ahead of the rear wheels, they need to spin faster.

Front tractor 4x4 axles can be broken if abused beyond their design. Chaining up the fronts tend to prevent the spin that is needed in the front to prevent binding. This is why chaining rears is OK and chaining all four is debated, but likely OK, while chaining only the fronts is highly discouraged by most.

It's your machine, just make an informed decision.

Chaining all four tires in this area is quite common and has never been a debatable matter. I would really like to know how many folks on this site have had problems with chains just on the front, I know that's been my setup for the past three years with no problems, maybe I've just been lucky. With that being said I'm in the process of getting chains for the rear, not because I'm worried about hurting anything but for the better traction.

 

[blueone]

Until this year I've always used rear chains, have to look at the picture posted of the hill up to the house. But their a bear due to the weight

This year I lucked into a set of v-bar chains from an old Willy's jeep my father had 30 years ago, had been forgotten until the Christmas snow. So now I'm running them on all four's.

I think that:
#1 in a snowfall of less than 6" I'd just use the front because that amount of snow shouldn't put much stress on anything
#2 the ease of installation no need for the added time and back strain moving the rears. IMO.

This year in the Mid Atlantic is one for the record books and I will probably never see this much snow at once the rest of my life, I hope.

 

[bp fick]

I follow you I think.

In 2WD the two axles are not linked. So no issue.

In 4X4 they are. And I understand the fronts being equal to or slightly ahead of the rears to maintain steering.

Then it seems that there is a natural bind proportional to the speed differential that is built into the design. And indeed we are aware of it whenever we are on a hard, high traction surface. You scuff the fronts in turns and I guess on the straights as well but that is much harder to see. In a field you can almost ignore it. On ice or snow it is largely a non-issue.

In my case a dramatic loss of traction may easily mean the loss of the tractor and perhaps a life. That changes things for me.

In 4X4 there is always a mismatch, and the cheap solution employed by the manufacturers is that something will slip to relieve the bind. And it does. A lockable center might be ideal but costly and mostly unnecessary.

How does this sound to you? If chains are mounted, stay off pavement unless in 2WD or if the surface is covered in snow or ice. Since I plow downhill I usually don't need 4WD because the tractor, loader, and rear blade provide enough weight to push with. But braking will get your attention in a hurry. So actually plowing which I do backwards with a floating blade and with a tooth bar on the front bucket poised to jam down as my anchor is pretty easy. The front chains in 2WD would would be on the uphill end and the tooth bar bucket is my bailout if things go sour. Coming back up to make another pass requires 4X4 for sure. Then the traction advantage switches to the front wheels with the chains and the rears will slip to release the bind.

Bear with me please. I know what you said. I want to find a solution and if looking dumb leads me to a better one, so be it. I need braking. And I want the best traction on the up hill end so I don't switch ends and go over.

In your profile, you state owning a Kubota L. Why not just do this. Email Kubota. Their service email is on their website. Get it straight from them about the whole chaining issue. Ask them simple, straightforward questions about back, all four, just front. You'll get an answer within 4 days.

Let us know what they say. Even dealers seem to have too broad of opinions on the matter. Go to the source. The rest around here is just us guys talkin' which only means so much. Best wishes.

 

[MF RED in MT]

As I understand it, on a 4x4, the front wheels are smaller, thus to "keep up" or actually, keep ahead of the rear wheels, they need to spin faster.

Front tractor 4x4 axles can be broken if abused beyond their design. Chaining up the fronts tend to prevent the spin that is needed in the front to prevent binding. This is why chaining rears is OK and chaining all four is debated, but likely OK, while chaining only the fronts is highly discouraged by most.

It's your machine, just make an informed decision.

I must think MF has engineered a gearing adjustment so the small front tires rotating only a single revolution comes very close to what the rear tires single revolution is . What I come up with just using the outside diameter of the tires is a 23.5 inch difference in only a single revolution, or a 70% difference from the rear tires to the front tires.
My GC2410 R4 Tires:
Rear Tire Diameter = 25.5 inches and a Circumference of 80.11 inches;
Front Tire Diameter = 17.7 inches and a Circumference of 56.60 inches;
That is a a whole lot of slipping to do in 4WD if MF has the same gearing for the front and rear final drive? I have not noticed any amount of slipping while in 4WD and driving on a 4 inch fresh snowfall while looking at the tires tracking in the snow. I could be looking at this tires size vs. 4WD thing wrong? KC

 

[chilibit]

I think the gear ratios are different front and back. That said, a variety of things including the differences in tire sizes in actuality vs coding by different vendors and air pressures mean perfection is not going to happen. Whatever perfection is.

 

[DHD]

In your profile, you state owning a Kubota L. Why not just do this. Email Kubota. Their service email is on their website. Get it straight from them about the whole chaining issue. Ask them simple, straightforward questions about back, all four, just front. You'll get an answer within 4 days.

Let us know what they say. Even dealers seem to have too broad of opinions on the matter. Go to the source. The rest around here is just us guys talkin' which only means so much. Best wishes.

I have been reading along in the back ground, with great interest,
because I would like to improve my steering traction on ice.
I had contacted Kubota (via their web site) on a different issue a few weeks ago, and a Kubota representative actually called my home. We talked about the question I posted on Kubota website. Then I asked him
about tire chain useage for my B7800 to improve my steering traction. Rather than repeat myself, I had previously posted this information at the following post, if anyone is interested.
dhd

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/159205-tire-chains-industrial-tires-4.html

 

[The Haymaker]

I know I am going to get bashed for this but R4's are not much good on a tractor. I have had used them and hated them. I can not see why they are so popular? I guess they do look good but thats about it. R1's out perform them in every way when it comes to working in dirt, mud, snow, ect. Ice is ice and nothing but stud or chains are going to improve the situation. I would try some R1's first then if needed do something else.

Chris

You just don't have a use for R4's! They are the ideal for me. The property I have has many soft areas and slopes where, during the summer, turf tires would not (correction, they didn't) work. I have woods that are muddy, where they won't even move.

My primary tractor usage is mowing, a lot. Ag tires would destroy what I have tried so hard to beautify.

The R4's are a nice jack of all trades tire. They are in the middle, not the best traction, but they are easy on the lawn as well. They also work amazingly well in deep snow, as long as there is no ice underneath. Ag's wouldn't help there either. Don't bash them just because you don't have a use for them.

 

[chilibit]

I have been reading along in the back ground, with great interest,
because I would like to improving my steering traction on ice.
I had contacted Kubota (via their web site) on a different issue a few weeks ago, and a Kubota representative actually called my home. We talked about the question I posted on Kubota website. Then I asked him
about tire chain useage for my B7800 to improve my steering traction. Rather than repeat myself, I had previously posted this information at the following post, if anyone is interested.
dhd

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/159205-tire-chains-industrial-tires-4.html

Excellent! I don't know why I missed this thread to begin with. It had been addressed and rather well.