wiring for welding

   / wiring for welding #31  
Wow this has me confused and I have been working with electricity for almost 40 years now.

1. dont worry about the plug being 50 amps and someone putting a 50 amp device on it. If you have the money and want to do it the proper way then you can run the right size wire and a 50 amp breaker. If you want to be cheaper then run 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp 220 breaker. As long as the breaker is sized correctly for the wire it will be safe.

You really really need that ground wire. I did not notice anyone mentioning safety as the reason for it. If something were to short to the case, such as a winding in the transformer and you touch the case at the same time you touch something that has a good ground ( pipes, another piece of equipment that is only 110 volt but has a ground wire going to its case etc) you are going to complete the circuit between your welding case and ground. If that circuit goes across your heart you are most likely going to die. That is the main reason you have a ground cable is for SAFETY.

I am under the impression that most home wireing is actually 180 out of phase. I am not 100 per cent sure of that. I do know that if you want three phase wireing the electric company has to run leads from the nearest three phase power they have available.


To the original poster. There are some facts in these posts you really need to be aware of. 1. A lot of cities, counties and I believe some states will not let DIY people run electric power because of the danger involved if it is not done right. Not only to the original user but to others ( I. E. If your house catches on fire and burns up the neighborhood. ) 2. A lot of insurance companies have a fit if they find out that you have run your own house wiring. ( IE such as cancel your insurance.) If you have a lot of electrical experience and you dont have legal restrictions against it then go ahead and run your own cable just make sure whatever cable you use is 2 conductors and a ground. The ground can be a bare copper wire with no problem.



The last thing I want to mention is that you probably dont want to use an ohm meter in a HOT electrical panel if you go across energized power lines with it something is going to melt more than likely the meter and probably the leads you are holding. I would recomment a VOM (Volt Ohm Meter) that has a setting for measureing volts.
 
   / wiring for welding #32  
I tried welding using 1/8 rod and a 30 amp breaker but ever time I would stick the rod to the metal it would blow the breaker. I know none of you have ever done that......Larry
 
   / wiring for welding #33  
mopacman said:
I tried welding using 1/8 rod and a 30 amp breaker but ever time I would stick the rod to the metal it would blow the breaker. I know none of you have ever done that......Larry

Nope never tripped the breaker yet. But it is installed per the manufacturers instructions and the NEC. #10 wire on a 50A breaker.
 
   / wiring for welding #34  
Inspector507 said:
Nope never tripped the breaker yet. But it is installed per the manufacturers instructions and the NEC. #10 wire on a 50A breaker.

I am confused why would you ever have a 50 amp breaker on #10 wire. Inspector 507 I thought you were an electrician.
 
   / wiring for welding #35  
gemini5362 said:
I am confused why would you ever have a 50 amp breaker on #10 wire. Inspector 507 I thought you were an electrician.

NEC says it's okay, UL says it's okay and the manufacturer says it's okay. And no I'm no longer an electrician, just a code official enforcing the NEC.
 
   / wiring for welding #36  
Inspector507 said:
NEC says it's okay, UL says it's okay and the manufacturer says it's okay. And no I'm no longer an electrician, just a code official enforcing the NEC.
Yeah that is what i thought you actually did but I figured I would be safer just saying electrician.

Please dont take this as an argument you know a lot more about code than I ever will in my entire life. I understand that it is ok because basically the welder is not pulling that much current. The problem I see is twofold. What if you get a partial short across the wiring behind the receptacle the 10 gauge is going to get hot enough to melt before the breaker trips or, if you decide to plug something in there that will fit and draws more than 30 amps lets say something that draws 40 or even 50 amps at that point you have a problem with the 10 gauge wire getting rather warm. ( for some reason this discussion is very familiar must be deja vue)
 
   / wiring for welding #37  
gemini5362 said:
Yeah that is what i thought you actually did but I figured I would be safer just saying electrician.

Please dont take this as an argument you know a lot more about code than I ever will in my entire life. I understand that it is ok because basically the welder is not pulling that much current. The problem I see is twofold. What if you get a partial short across the wiring behind the receptacle the 10 gauge is going to get hot enough to melt before the breaker trips or, if you decide to plug something in there that will fit and draws more than 30 amps lets say something that draws 40 or even 50 amps at that point you have a problem with the 10 gauge wire getting rather warm. ( for some reason this discussion is very familiar must be deja vue)

gemini,
The first scenario deals with short circuit current and has little to do with the amperage of the breaker. If something shorts out behind the receptacle, it will trip.
The second is why I recommend a NEMA 6-50R receptacle. It is dedicated for welders and is what is recommended by probably every welder manufacturer. You can't plug a range into a NEMA 6-50R receptacle.

Deja Vu? Yep and I wonder why I even commented here. Would you like to read what I copied out of the manual for my welder?
 
   / wiring for welding #38  
LOL

No I dont need to read what your manual says. I missed where you recommended a different kind of receptacle. Since I am not familiar with that receptacle please enlighten me I might want to switch the one for my welder. One of the plugs that came with my welder fits into the plug in for a range perfectly. ( I have a miller DVI with multpiple adapter plugs)

As far as Deja Vu I am not going to restart that whole thread again. I am going to just hopefully agree that we disagree. I will point out that you have mountains of experience with code versus my basically no code experience. I just am of the simple opinion that you never ever put a bigger breaker than the wire is rated for. I do however acknowledge your superior experience with code and home electrical wiring. I just basically disagree in this one particular instance.
 
   / wiring for welding #39  
gemini5362 said:
LOL

No I dont need to read what your manual says. I missed where you recommended a different kind of receptacle. Since I am not familiar with that receptacle please enlighten me I might want to switch the one for my welder. One of the plugs that came with my welder fits into the plug in for a range perfectly. ( I have a miller DVI with multpiple adapter plugs)

As far as Deja Vu I am not going to restart that whole thread again. I am going to just hopefully agree that we disagree. I will point out that you have mountains of experience with code versus my basically no code experience. I just am of the simple opinion that you never ever put a bigger breaker than the wire is rated for. I do however acknowledge your superior experience with code and home electrical wiring. I just basically disagree in this one particular instance.
First, I think it's wrong for a manufacturer to include a plug that will fit into a range outlet. One is a NEMA 6-50R the other is a 10-50R. The 6-50R is the correct one. Most welder supply houses will have it if you ask for a welder outlet. Is it more convenient to install a range plug? Yes. Because they are more readily available. And people don't know there is one dedicated for a welder.

If you look at Table 310-16 of the current NEC, there is an asterick on #10 wire. The asterick directs you to Article 240-4(D) which directs you to 240-4(G) for Special Conductor Appilcations. That in turn says to look at Article 630 for Electric Welders, which says for one welder on the circuit, you can fuse the feed for the welder at 200% of the conductor ampacity. #10 THHN/THWN is actually rated for 40 amps, so if I fuse it at 200%, it's good for 80 amps for a welder.

But we can agree to disagree. :D

BTW I didn't make a recommendation in this thread on the receptacle, just the previous ones.
 
   / wiring for welding #40  
I run a hobart and Lincoln 230a ac welder on 10 guage wire. Also run a 30a breaker. One is here and one is at the weekend place. Both have NEVER popped the breaker. Why, I never need to run 230a welding, I can't lift 1" plate you know. :D Last project I ran 60a max. I think the most I've ever run is 120a. My cord is also 30' long. The 30a breaker protects the 10 guage wire I guess. And I've never burnt down a house!!

Actually after welding or using an O/A set, I never leave the house for 30 minutes. Mainly for a rolling piece of steel or slag.

Good Luck,
Rob
 

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