johnday
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Wisdom on gun purchase please?
- Thread starter Richard
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Slamfire
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I don't see any harm is shooting the perp 15 times, the LAPD and LASD do it routinely. Half of the round bounce off the sidewalk and go through the perp twice. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
mundamanu
Silver Member
<font color="blue">
And don't forget...if you can retreat out of harm's way, that's what you must do.
That firearm is only if you cannot get away from the threat!</font>
<font color="red">Depends on the state. Some states codify a "duty to retreat", others do not. Check the laws in your state. </font>
I think, although I may be wrong, though I hope I am not, that RoyJackson's was a moral and not a legal statement.
And don't forget...if you can retreat out of harm's way, that's what you must do.
That firearm is only if you cannot get away from the threat!</font>
<font color="red">Depends on the state. Some states codify a "duty to retreat", others do not. Check the laws in your state. </font>
I think, although I may be wrong, though I hope I am not, that RoyJackson's was a moral and not a legal statement.
MossRoad
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I think you'll find, all kidding aside, that everyone here takes the issue most seriously and only want to protect themselves and their families the best they can. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
mundamanu
Silver Member
I have, throughout my reading of this thread, left all kidding aside (as best I can), because I have been impressed by the acknowledgement of the severity of the decision to carry a concealed gun and/or have guns at home for self-defense.
I responded to GaryM because I do not think he was kidding. I think he was serious.
If his post was to counter what he thought was a legal statement by RoyJackson, then I have no problem with his post. However, if his post was to counter what he thought was a moral statement by RoyJackson, then I find it reprehensible.
I am not trying to start an argument, nor to berate GaryM. I am simply drawing a line in the sand. Joking about killing people is one thing. Constructing a legal argument to legitimize killing someone when one has the option to avoid it is another beast entirely. [Note: I am not saying that GaryM did the latter. I am saying that it is possible to read what GaryM posted as doing the latter, and I want to make sure that if that is the case, then it is appropriately rejected.]
I responded to GaryM because I do not think he was kidding. I think he was serious.
If his post was to counter what he thought was a legal statement by RoyJackson, then I have no problem with his post. However, if his post was to counter what he thought was a moral statement by RoyJackson, then I find it reprehensible.
I am not trying to start an argument, nor to berate GaryM. I am simply drawing a line in the sand. Joking about killing people is one thing. Constructing a legal argument to legitimize killing someone when one has the option to avoid it is another beast entirely. [Note: I am not saying that GaryM did the latter. I am saying that it is possible to read what GaryM posted as doing the latter, and I want to make sure that if that is the case, then it is appropriately rejected.]
GaryM
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I am serious about knowing what your state requires. I appreciate the difference between legal and moral obligations. I was just trying to point out that some states require you do do everything you can to avoid the badguy/agressor, even in your own home! A person who chooses to carry/own a deadly weapon needs to know the legal ground upon which they stand.
Other states do not recognize the legal obligation to retreat, but if things do go badly, it does your case good to be able to show that you tried to escape. And it may be your moral code to avoid discharging your weapon except as a last resort. I think most folks would feel that way. But If I'm in my bedroom at night I don't plan to jump out a second story window to avoid a conflict. On the street, sure walk away or avoid the area if possible.
In Missouri a person is legally allowed, according to the CCW course instructor, to use deadly force against for example a carjacker. Other states may not allow this. You may feel that keeping your car does not justify use of force, but car jackers have been known in many cases to shoot the occupants. So are you protecting your life or your car. How about if the jacker tries to drive off with your kids still in the back seat?
Owning a weapon and perhaps carrying it is a major decision. We don't know what we'll do until the situation presents itself.
Other states do not recognize the legal obligation to retreat, but if things do go badly, it does your case good to be able to show that you tried to escape. And it may be your moral code to avoid discharging your weapon except as a last resort. I think most folks would feel that way. But If I'm in my bedroom at night I don't plan to jump out a second story window to avoid a conflict. On the street, sure walk away or avoid the area if possible.
In Missouri a person is legally allowed, according to the CCW course instructor, to use deadly force against for example a carjacker. Other states may not allow this. You may feel that keeping your car does not justify use of force, but car jackers have been known in many cases to shoot the occupants. So are you protecting your life or your car. How about if the jacker tries to drive off with your kids still in the back seat?
Owning a weapon and perhaps carrying it is a major decision. We don't know what we'll do until the situation presents itself.
mundamanu
Silver Member
GaryM, I appreciate the explanation. Thank you. I have read a number of your posts over at CBN and did not think that you were a closet cold-blooded killer. I just wanted to make sure that the possible readings of your comment on what RoyJackson posted were explored and evaluated.
Anyway, I will hop back out of this discussion because I don't own a gun, likely never will, and do not live in fear of being threatened with imminent mortal harm by one of my fellow human beings. (Couldn't resist. Sorry)
Anyway, I will hop back out of this discussion because I don't own a gun, likely never will, and do not live in fear of being threatened with imminent mortal harm by one of my fellow human beings. (Couldn't resist. Sorry)
GaryM
Veteran Member
After reading your post and re-reading mine I agree that mine came across as cold. But I was just trying to point out that the legal system varies from state to state, not that we should go looking for an excuse to kill someone.
I appreciate that peoples moral values vary, just read the newspaper or watch the news on TV.
I appreciate that peoples moral values vary, just read the newspaper or watch the news on TV.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Anyway, I will hop back out of this discussion because I don't own a gun, likely never will, and do not live in fear of being threatened with imminent mortal harm by one of my fellow human beings. (Couldn't resist. Sorry) )</font>
Does that mean that you are also actively opposed to agents of the government possessing firearms and doing violence on your behalf?
Does that mean that you are also actively opposed to agents of the government possessing firearms and doing violence on your behalf?
RoyJackson
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue">
And don't forget...if you can retreat out of harm's way, that's what you must do.
That firearm is only if you cannot get away from the threat!</font>
<font color="red">Depends on the state. Some states codify a "duty to retreat", others do not. Check the laws in your state. </font>
I think, although I may be wrong, though I hope I am not, that RoyJackson's was a moral and not a legal statement. )</font>
In PA, you've got to try to retreat...legally. The law is somewhat murky when one is in their home, however.
Morally...do you really want to kill someone? I don't...but if it's a matter that the gun has to come out for self defense, I am going to shoot to kill.
The poster that mentioned firing a full magazine (15 rounds)...problem with that is when you go to court (very likely that will be the case), you'll have to justify your actions. Unloading a full magazine into somewhat might take some serious explaining. My Glock has 15 round magazines, but I don't think I'd fire all of them unless there were multiple attackers.
Now the cops do this all the time ("Spray and Pray"), but cops who do that have no business being cops. I mean, you do need to know how to use the handgun...
And don't forget...if you can retreat out of harm's way, that's what you must do.
That firearm is only if you cannot get away from the threat!</font>
<font color="red">Depends on the state. Some states codify a "duty to retreat", others do not. Check the laws in your state. </font>
I think, although I may be wrong, though I hope I am not, that RoyJackson's was a moral and not a legal statement. )</font>
In PA, you've got to try to retreat...legally. The law is somewhat murky when one is in their home, however.
Morally...do you really want to kill someone? I don't...but if it's a matter that the gun has to come out for self defense, I am going to shoot to kill.
The poster that mentioned firing a full magazine (15 rounds)...problem with that is when you go to court (very likely that will be the case), you'll have to justify your actions. Unloading a full magazine into somewhat might take some serious explaining. My Glock has 15 round magazines, but I don't think I'd fire all of them unless there were multiple attackers.
Now the cops do this all the time ("Spray and Pray"), but cops who do that have no business being cops. I mean, you do need to know how to use the handgun...
