Wisdom on gun purchase please?

RoyJackson · Jun 19, 2004

Don...the discussion involves folks who already know the value or non-value of guns. I don't believe this discussion concerned gun control at all...

Now...for my contribution: I own a Mossberg 500 and it is a fine, low cost shotgun. I keep a box a low recoil (that's a relative thing) double-ought buckshot in close vicinity to the shotgun, but don't normally keep it loaded. Although pistol grips on a 12 gage look cool in the movies, I find them extremely uncomfortable to shoot.
As far as the handgun, I keep a .357 Magnum revolver handy at all times. I personally think a revolver is a better choice for home defense. For a carry gun, there's a few different models I like. My favorite is a Glock 9 mm due to their robustness. But I frequently carry a light weight .38 as the size and weight makes it very nice for pocket carry (with a holster!).

RanchMan · Jun 19, 2004

Although pistol grips on a 12 gage look cool in the movies, I find them extremely uncomfortable to shoot. 

I found the same thing. After trying a pistol grip on my 1300 I switched back to the regular stock.

GRUMPA · Jun 19, 2004

WOW!!! Talk about alot of input. Well let me add my 2 pennies in this as well. Out where we are there really isnt a whole lot of need for them in the city, 911 works really well.

Now out on our ranch thats another matter. A 12 gauge would fit the bill rather well for many reasons, ammo for that calibre is almost everywhere and rather cheap and comes in many different styles. I make all my own for a specific purpose. Critters out there think our ranch is there for there personal dining. Pesky critters they are but I'm in there domain so I have to understand that. The 12 gauge up close and personal is for a lack of better words LETHAL, its dosent leave a pretty picture in someones mind veiwing the damage that it causes. But on the other hand I've used it at over 75 yards and seemed like all I did was just scare them off.

Although I almost always open carry there with a 357 even when I go out into the desert just outside of town its waranted by the local young folk that seem to take things to the extreme when they're bothered for whatever reason and on many ocassions they have stopped dead in there tracks as soon as they spot the 357 just hanging on my hip. I'm sure things would have gotten ugly in a hurry if I didnt have it.

I make my own loads for my guns 38 special works wonders for getting familiar with your 357 and wont hurt your pocket book as well as your hands.

Out at the farm there isnt any way to dial 911 there isnt any phone lines or city services of any kind close by. So as a result you have to be ready to handle anything that nature or man throws at you at a moments notice. We really havent had any of the locals Whooping it up and had a problem what so ever. But we feel its best to stay safe. In the event that something did happen the local police cant protect you from it because it is happening now, the only thing they can do is take a report of what happened AFTER THE FACT.

I hope this gives you a feeling of what it is your about to consider taking on. With gun ownership comes a giant wave of responsibility. Training isnt always the answer as far as hitting your target at 25 yards, stress fire is a whole diferent deal altogether, your hearts racing and feels like it going to jump out of your chest. And if your thinking of getting a concealled permit the first thing that they tell you here is that if you ever have to use your gun in self defense plan on spending at a minimum of 30k in attorneys fees if the local attorneys office prosicutes you.

I would think long and hard on this.

fishman · Jun 19, 2004

Don,

I keep my tractor safe in my garage, fueled and greased and ready to go if I need it. I know where it is and, if while bumming around my property I see something that requires the use of my tractor, I'll go get it and take care of the problem.

Along those lines, I have a firearm secured in a safe next to my bed. It can be opened by pushing a series of keys that I program, even in the dark. If someone breaks down my door at night, I will have my gun in hand before they make it into my bedroom, you can be sure. My 9mm auto with tritium night sights and proven ammo would be a whole lot more comforting (and effective) than my bare hands.

If someone broke in and harmed my family I would never forgive myself. It is my responsibility to keep them safe using the skills/means available to me. Nobody else has that responsibility. The best the police can do is track down the criminals afterwards and turn them over to the courts.

If they break in while I'm gone, well, that's why I have property insurance.

If I recall, we've been down this road before, so I'll say my last bit by answering the question.

I'd get a good solid pump action shotgun, 12 or 20 gauge. You can't go wrong with Remington, but I would be comfortable with a shotgun from any domestic maker in my hands in a crisis.

I'd also get a large-frame .357 revolver. You can practice with it using 38 special for less money and less recoil. The Smith and Wesson 686 or Ruger GP 100 are fine examples.

OkeeDon · Jun 19, 2004

There was not a word in my post that was anti-gun. The question to which I was responding is whether a gun had to be in hand to be effective for personal defense. The ridiculous statement was that if a gun had to be in hand 23/7, then one's butt had to be in a tractor seat 24/7, because a gun as a tool is no different than a tractor. That is patently ridiculous.

One tool (the tractor) has no bearing on an imminent, life-threatening situation. The other tool, a gun, if it is to be an effective tool in an imminent, life threatening situation, must not only be immediately in hand, it must be in a position where one can use it faster than the other person can use theirs. That is simply a statement of fact.

We can all come up with scenarios, such as being in bed and hearing a noise, in which a gun can be accessed quickly enough. But, the issue under discussion is nutty people, drinking, carousing and trespassing on TVA land near Richard's property, very likely with their guns already out. I guarantee you that in that situation, if the drunken jerk sees you reach for a shotgun or any other tool, he has no inhibitions -- he will shoot first and think about it later, if at all. If you're not prepared to shoot faster than they can, you lose.

That simple statement of fact has nothing to do with pro-gun or anti-gun positions. I did not dispute that a gun is a tool, nor did I make any statement that indicated one should not have a gun. I wasn't the person who raised the subject of having the gun in hand, nor was I the person who tried to compare a tractor and a gun as a similar tool. And, I am far from the first person to point out that if you have a gun, the chances are much more likely that a gun will be used against you.

I suggest that people READ what I say, and THINK about it, before making knee-jerk reactions. I stand by my statements, and have no intentions of deleting them. Nothing I said was offensive or anti-gun. But, I found the reactions to be highly offensive.

MikePA · Jun 19, 2004

I don't have any advice re: what gun to purchase. I'm just going to comment on your situation.

 (in an unrelated incident, we DID had a dead body show up on the OTHER side of the farm) So these rednecks DO seem capable of their threats.
One of the 'rednecks' you hope to protect yourself from were convicted of killing this person?

 I’m fairly sure I’d be able to defend my family 
No offense, but being 'fairly sure' probably is not good enough. Can you kill someone? I recognize the no one who has not done this can know in advance, but IMO, if you are only 'fairly' certain you can before the situation arises, what makes you think you will be able to when the situation arises? Again, I mean no offense, but many of these responses concentrated on what gun to purchase, which is fine. Take some time and contemplate if you could use it to kill someone.

Under what circumstances do you anticipate having to use the gun?

 I just got off the phone with my guy at TVA and within the next two weeks, he’s going to try to hire someone (me) to trench out the ingress/egress points used by our visitors to get to their places of camping, drugs, dumping, other. 

If your neighbors see this work happening, i.e., someone is blocking access to 'their playground' they might get a little upset. I would definitely not do this work for the TVA. Let them hire someone else so you are not connected to this work in any way or you might incur your neighbor's wrath which is what you're trying to avoid.

With the recent Memorial Day and D-Day activities, there were a lot of interviews with veterans. Several of them still bore the scars of seeing friends killed as well as having to kill another human being, even a human being who was shooting at them and was the enemy. I think movies and TV dull us to the psychological impact of taking someone else's life. The sensitivity (as well as anger) you shared when your dogs were shot indicated to me that the death of a living being affected you. Again, in my opinion, being the means by which someone, no matter how justified, was ushered into eternity is not something to be taken lightly. (Again, I am not implying that you were taking this lightly, just offering food for thought.)

Ozarker · Jun 19, 2004

No need to see into the future. My firearm is always accessible unless some law prevents it. Then I work to eliminate that law.

Criminals tend to ignore laws. That is why we call them criminals.

Ozarker · Jun 19, 2004

( Out where we are there really isnt a whole lot of need for them in the city, 911 works really well.)

So why is most of the crime and most of the murders in the city?????

Egon · Jun 19, 2004

Egon here Don.

Seems you are getting flack for something I started. I apologize for that . I fully agree with your post and your response.

Egon

Ozarker · Jun 19, 2004

( There was not a word in my post that was anti-gun. The question to which I was responding is whether a gun had to be in hand to be effective for personal defense. The ridiculous statement was that if a gun had to be in hand 23/7, then one's butt had to be in a tractor seat 24/7, because a gun as a tool is no different than a tractor. That is patently ridiculous.)

You may not have liked the comparison for whatever reason but the only thing patently ridiculous was your response.

A tool is a tool is a tool is a tool. You may not believe that and you may not like it....but who cares? It is the truth with or without your consent.

What I was trying to show was that a gun doesn't have to be in your hand all the time to be useful for it's intended purpose. I can have it put away in a safe place close at hand ready to be quickly put to use if the need arises.

Same for my tractor. I don't need to sit on the seat with it running to wait for that big snow storm. I can have it put away, loaded with fuel, battery charged and snow blade already attached.

My tools...........all my tools..........just need to be well maintained and accessible to be useful.

If have time to dial 911, you have time to get your defensive tool.....then dial 911.