world trade center

[ERNIEB]

Lets see what we have here. An enemy who is difficult to identify. One who hits and runs to hiding places, but is willing to die for his cause if the need arises. He uses simple devices to cause harm to the body and to the psyche. He is determined, resolute, learns from his mistakes, and keeps coming. No battle lines, and may strike anywhere, any time.
Scruffy, there is a reason I picked on you. Where have you seen this before? It's deja vu all over again, only this time on our own soil.
What ever we feel about this tragedy, we should not be surprised. There has been ample warning. We choose to ignore it. If we want to be mad at someone we should start with ourselves, and our indifference.

Ernie

 

[scruffy]

ErnieB, Had you picked on me? I hadn't noticed. Maybe I am a little dense here, but hey, the beat goes on. Yes, it DID remind me of other things. I guess I've gotten odd in my older ways, but let it suffice to say, I haven't even gone hunting since the mid sixties. Figured ''nuff was 'nuff'.
Do I believe in capital punishment...you bet. Do I believe in wanton slaughter condoned and authorized by our government? No, except in a declared war, and then, targets of military value. Do I think we should lower ourselves (as a nation) to the level of the terrorists? Absolutely not. In anything in life, we should not lower or debase ourselves to exact retribution. Justice? Absolutely. BUT through accepted means. You may ask, 'What are accepted means'?
Our response may be military, or it may be through more conventional methods, but if it IS a military response, the keep the political aspect out of it, turn it over to the military with a stated objective in mind, and let them do the job!
The charter for our Armed Forces is designed to prevent them from enforcing civil codes/laws, and I believe it should stay that way....one of the major differences of our nation in comparison to those who suffer constant military 'juntas'.
I do not want to see the innocent of any nation suffer for the deeds of a few.
ErnieB, I think you know where I am coming from.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

have been on vacation 1300 miles away, just got back, drove rented car, hertz was great on cost and waiving 1300 mile difference in drop off point.

Hug your wives, kids, neighbors, friends, nothing much else means much tonight.

best wishes to all and my deepest sorrow and prayers go to any of you that have suffered more then we viewers.

del

 

[jdkid]

Re: I ECHO your sentiments!

Hi ya's
I'll back the glue guy on this ,i saw on cnn? bout the place that trained these guys to fly cost?1500 US bucks box cutters can be picked up at any 7-11 .think about it ready made bomb ,a weak link that someone has used against the free world .i too saw the small kids danceing but alot of these countrys are at war all the time it's part of there life my mother run a camp site years ago and meet a guy and his wife from there (middle east somewhere ) back then all males leaveing school (15) spent 4-8 years in the forces 1/2 of that time on the gazer strip...i think we forget somepeople in other parts of the world this is there way of life pic this if every one in the USA at age 15 had to go to war ,not train but kill.... people in the old USSR not knowing if the kgb would knock on there door at 2 am ,the IRA in belfast ,the subway bombing in china?japan? ..something will have to happen but ya don't cut ya toenails with a axe .another thing if the worst comes to the worst i hope Nostradamus is wrong 27 years is a long time !!!!!!!!!!!!!
take care
JD Kid

 

[toddler]

Re: I ECHO your sentiments!

Phred,
Nope, didn't know a Mac 10 was crap. Wasn't even sure if it was 9 or 10 except I thought it was a 10 from Law & Order on TV. Thanks for the info, guess I'll pick something else for my next trip.

On a more serious note, Grant, I agree that it's great that we can debate this. If you've been watching the news you'll have seen politicians and analysts commenting that in a state of war, that right may go away. After all, can't have our peaceful Moslem citizens who have family left in Afganistan getting too irate if we decide to level the country. Right Fuzzmental, nuke'em, then screw the first ammendment, we've got the second???

Richh, I like that tactic much more than wanton killing. If we find a target of millitary importance such as a training camp for terrorists, I'll support taking it out. I'll accept that innocent lives might be lost in that Fuzzmental.

Fuzzmental, tell me if I have your logic wrong.
There exists a radical group of terrorists spread throughout the world, who believe it is their duty to kill Americans. They believe their G-d wants them to and that it is an honor to die doing this, because America's political stance has supported or directly taken military actions against their home lands.
Because of this, if the United States goes and kills a whole lot of people in their countries, they won't believe those innocents were martyrs and should be avenged. Instead, they'll stop their actions against the United States, because they'll be scared more people will die. After all, they've already shown how scared they are to die.

I agree ERNIEB, it's what I meant when I said we were due. We forgot the Alamo. We got complacent feeling that we were secure and superior to the "savages" outside our fortress. Unfortunately, it's a small world, and the United States isn't and can't be a secure fortress. It was wonderful when we could pretend it was, and I'll mourn the loss of that illusion almost as much as I'll mourn the loss of life from this tragedy.

Todd

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Re: I ECHO your sentiments!

GlueGuy,

Bin Laden MAY have been able to pull this off by himself, but I still think he has help. I think he has technical expertise from at least one nation and maybe more, passports, arrangements to show individuals as employees of certain companies, etc. Pakistan has been supporting the Taliban and the Taliban has supported Bin Laden. Pakistan is a Nuclear power. Lots of expertise there. How much of it has managed to filter back to ******?

Others here have already echoed my first thought about this. Bin Laden has billions? Snatch them. Kinda tough to run a war without money, and we can use it to build a new trade center. I suspect the Taliban may be a little less hospitable to Bin Laden when he can no longer provide them with arms and toys. Bin Laden undoubtedly has more money than the country he's hiding in.

Second, cut off all communication. Internet, satellite, phone, all of it to that country. Close off roads and all supplies.

Let them wallow in it for awhile. That will either drive him to ground or force him out. His ardent followers might be a little less energetic when he can't feed or defend them. THEN, go in an get him.

I understand from the news this morning that Pakistan has agreed to assist us, but only if we PROVE that Bin Laden is responsible. It's going to be tough to get him out. He's a dead man either way. After the Oklahoma bombing the penalty for killing Federal Workers or destroying Federal buildings is death. Surely he knows that, this is not a "life in an American prison where I can still run my network operation."

SHF

 

[toddler]

Re: I ECHO your sentiments!

Can't argue with that tactic SHF. Even if ***** ben Ladin isn't responsible for this one, we know he was involved in other terrorist acts. Also, civilians will be affected if we cut off communications, but not to the extent it would affect Americans. It would severely handicap the leaders over there.

Todd

 

[mikim]

I've been antsy ever since the attack. I remarried after my 21 year military career ended. She tries to be understanding but because she wasn't with me when .. she just shakes her head when I tell her I'm antsy because I'm not doing anything. If I was still in I'd be hitting the flightline prepping your plane and packing bags getting ready to go ... somewhere... and I'd at least be doing SOMETHING... rather than sitting on my old butt watching things unfold that I'm too old and too fat to do anything about. My war was 'nam ... I volunteered to go there... I'm scared to death of this one ... I'm afraid it's going to be more terrible than anything any of us have ever seen - and the attack on NY will pale by comparison to what will be. To all who still serve and will serve ..Via Con Dios.. and know that I among thousands will be with you in spirit.
mike

 

[fuzzmental]

Re: I ECHO your sentiments!

"Right Fuzzmental, nuke'em, then screw the first ammendment, we've got the second???"

If you'll re-read my posts I have not advocated a 'nuke'em' response. Nor have I mentioned anything about the constitution. I've also never stated that by killing innocents in their country they will stop. Please don't ever put words in my mouth.

I also know that they are no where near their training camps as I write this. Taking out those camps will accomplish absolutely nothing. We need to track them down and take them out. And as in any war if truly innocent people get killed it is tragic but also something that happens.

I also believe that identifying 'military' targets in all of this will be extremely difficult. I do appreciate your responses however the sarcastic tones do nothing but elevate the emotions. We are now living in a world that many of us have never dreamed we'd see. There will be great debates and discussions, but in my opinion we need to try and get our points across and address others calmly and with respect.

 

[cowboydoc]

Grant,
You are right on and the nice guy image and all has to end now. Like I said in my earlier post if this is not followed through with complete and total retaliation we will be seen as weak and vulnerable to every terrorist group and nation looking to start it up. I cannot condone or agree with opinions like Todds. No offense Todd it is the other side of the coin that keeps these things somewhat in the middle of the ground. We're at war folks and innocent people die in war. Freedom never has and never will come without a cost and more often than not that cost is innocent people.