Front-End Loader Worst things to do to a FEL

[slowzuki]

I will say I was using my 100 hp Massey on the weekend with 3000 lbs hung 5 ft off the 3 point hitch, in 4wd, with the front and rear diffs locked, to pop trees and the root ball out of the ground.

Unfortunately I blew a loader hose. The loader wasn't being lifted so the cylinders don't have a relief valve connected in that state. The tractor pushing was enough to blow the 4 wire Gates hydraulic hose at the crimp. Let me tell you trying to find a DIN hydraulic fitting on short notice is a huge pain.

 

[IndyIan]

I will say I was using my 100 hp Massey on the weekend with 3000 lbs hung 5 ft off the 3 point hitch, in 4wd, with the front and rear diffs locked, to pop trees and the root ball out of the ground.

Unfortunately I blew a loader hose. The loader wasn't being lifted so the cylinders don't have a relief valve connected in that state. The tractor pushing was enough to blow the 4 wire Gates hydraulic hose at the crimp. Let me tell you trying to find a DIN hydraulic fitting on short notice is a huge pain.

I guess the lesson is that there's always a bigger tree than your tractor?
Would it be a good practice to always try to lift with the loader as you push to allow the relief valve to work and save your loader? I guess the relief valve doesn't care if you can't raise the bucket or have the bucket driven back down, too much pressure is too much pressure?

 

[SPYDERLK]

I guess the lesson is that there's always a bigger tree than your tractor?
Would it be a good practice to always try to lift with the loader as you push to allow the relief valve to work and save your loader? I guess the relief valve doesn't care if you can't raise the bucket or have the bucket driven back down, too much pressure is too much pressure?

Yes, but the issue that comes into play there can limit your push by using several HP of engine power on the hydraulics. On a heavy tractor of moderate HP fitted with a large pump you can end up having to let off hyd use to prevent engine bogging. A counterweighted 4wd tractor lifting and pushing has tremendous traction. Add the hyd load and you can even bog the lower gears in a push -- then add uphill travel. I can bog 2nd on the 7520 this way, but not 1st. Cant bog either with traction alone after Ive lifted and then centered the valve.
larry

 

[J_J]

I will say I was using my 100 hp Massey on the weekend with 3000 lbs hung 5 ft off the 3 point hitch, in 4wd, with the front and rear diffs locked, to pop trees and the root ball out of the ground.

Unfortunately I blew a loader hose. The loader wasn't being lifted so the cylinders don't have a relief valve connected in that state. The tractor pushing was enough to blow the 4 wire Gates hydraulic hose at the crimp. Let me tell you trying to find a DIN hydraulic fitting on short notice is a huge pain.

Some valves do have work port reliefs, and will protect the cyl and hoses at the set pressure.

Some people also use the bucket as a ram, and don't realize that mechanical forces can act like a pump and generate pressure.

 

[Smallplot]

You know, I was always "skeptical" about how useful a FEL was for years. Most old ag tractors and their aftermarket add on FEL's were only for loose materials. They lacked the sub frame and mechanical strength to do digging and stuff.

Kinda gotta disagree on this. We have a 1960's International, if this is an old Ag tractor to you, gas 706 with an international FEL that would dig through anything, and has several times over. But my brother finally bent the bucket hoisting something with a chain attached to the center of the bucket about 20 years ago. He said it was an engine, who really knows?

 

[LD1]

Kinda gotta disagree on this. We have a 1960's International, if this is an old Ag tractor to you, gas 706 with an international FEL that would dig through anything, and has several times over. But my brother finally bent the bucket hoisting something with a chain attached to the center of the bucket about 20 years ago. He said it was an engine, who really knows?

With all do respect, he did say most, NOT all. And he also said aftermarket loaders. And he also said the ones that lack the subframes.

And I agree with him on that, those ARE mostly for loose materials.

What YOU had was an international, with a NON-aftermarket international loader, WITH a subframe. So what you have is one of the few that doesnt fall into the "most" category.

 

[slowzuki]

Certainly wasn't using it that way, simply the large tractor with big counter weight generates far more tractive force than my L5030. I've got a 2500 lb rear blade (meant for up to a 200 hp tractor) on the L5030 right now and it can push pretty well too but the difference in weight and traction is drastic.

To the other poster, I was curling too, but its far harder to finesse the speed of a gear tractor with a hydraulic clutch to match the curl rate. Far easier to bulldoze the tree over. My hst Kubota its far easier to push up to them and curl.

Some valves do have work port reliefs, and will protect the cyl and hoses at the set pressure.

Some people also use the bucket as a ram, and don't realize that mechanical forces can act like a pump and generate pressure.

 

[Smallplot]

With all do respect, he did say most, NOT all. And he also said aftermarket loaders. And he also said the ones that lack the subframes.

And I agree with him on that, those ARE mostly for loose materials.

What YOU had was an international, with a NON-aftermarket international loader, WITH a subframe. So what you have is one of the few that doesnt fall into the "most" category.

Ok I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been! I still have done about everything that has been listed so far and prob worse. Aww the good ol days. Man am I gonna have to be careful when my new tractor gets here. Do you know how hard it will be not to do all those things and relive my youth!

 

[skspurling]

Ok I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been! I still have done about everything that has been listed so far and prob worse. Aww the good ol days. Man am I gonna have to be careful when my new tractor gets here. Do you know how hard it will be not to do all those things and relive my youth!

When i was a kid, I first realized that what I always thought of as a dozer was really a tracked tractor with a blade on the front. It was seeing the old JD advertisements for that tracked tractor they sold in the 40's and 50's. Things like that make you start thinking about where things come from and why. I think most factory tractor FEL's were made for construction and utility use before this home CUT market took off. Those would need to be tough. Backhoe or not, they were meant to be diggers.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Although you can get wonderful traction from the front wheels when lifting with the FEL, many of our tractors do not have indestructible drive trains. I particular, many 4wd front ends are not designed to handle all of the tractor's horsepower in low gear i.e. something will break before you snub the engine. Here are some front end failures that are loader related. In general lifting and pushing or pulling with 4wd engaged can put tremendus stress on the loader and tractor. When things start to creak, it's time to ease up. When you get a lot of springback as you change directions, that means there was a lot of elastic strain. Any strain beyond elastic = broke.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/mahindra-owning-operating/154165-4110-4-wheel-drive-broke.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/214500-b2910-front-wheel-snapped-off.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/john-deere-owning-operating/167365-jd-790-front-axel-2.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/186168-lk3054-front-axle-housing.html

One of the first lessons I learned with my loader was that the wire frame of a half buried bed spring is strong enough to get the back wheels of a 55hp tractor off the ground when reversing in 4wd.