Yet another slightly offbeat assignment...

[Dougster]

They just keep coming in! Yesterday, I got a call to fill in a series of abandoned manholes with sand... about 10 cubic yards worth altogether we figure... to be filled through ~24" (+/-) manhole openings. It would be nice to just have a truck drop off a load of sand nearby and then do the filling with something like this (something I really need to buy anyway):

The problem... and there always is one... is that I cannot dump the sand out of a truck or my dump trailer onto the ground anywhere near this work... and therefore must work with the sand taken directly out of the back of the dump trailer parked in a nearby parking lot. This would not normally be a problem since my 78" FEL bucket is almost as wide as my 80" wide dump trailer and it would be easy to dump into the 78" bucket one load at a time... but not if I am trying to use a tapered stump/concrete-style bucket to get the sand into the narrow manholes without spilling it!

Cops and inspectors will be watching the process... so this can't be an amateurish and/or easily botched-up job. Any creative ideas folks???

Dougster

 

[AlanB]

Big plywood funnel?

If we were doing it, we would just shovel it in.

10 yds would be about three trips through. Not sure how many manholes that is, but I could probably start shoveling and be done by the time you get done fooling with that other stuff.

 

[Dougster]

Big plywood funnel? If we were doing it, we would just shovel it in. 10 yds would be about three trips through. Not sure how many manholes that is, but I could probably start shoveling and be done by the time you get done fooling with that other stuff.

Yeah, you're right. The job certainly begs for a dump truck or two and several men with chutes and shovels. I cannot disagree with you. But then, I lose the work.

Dougster

 

[6sunset6]

This might work
I have always wanted a side dump bucket . There is a skid steer attachment made that does that. Propbably cost as much as a tractor.
Probably half of the work I have done in 13 years would have benefited from a bucket like that. It would add quite a bit of weight to the whole FEL assembly so it would not work on too small a machine I think.

 

[Dougster]

This might work I have always wanted a side dump bucket. There is a skid steer attachment made that does that. Propbably cost as much as a tractor. Probably half of the work I have done in 13 years would have benefited from a bucket like that. It would add quite a bit of weight to the whole FEL assembly so it would not work on too small a machine I think.

I believe I've seen the kind of thing you are talking about... and they are very cool. But as I recall, they are also UNGODLY expensive. This job would not support that kind of expense or anything close.

Folks call me on something like this when they are getting BS prices from the normal guys... often as change orders by their own contractors as part of a much bigger project. They are looking for cheap... but they still want the job done professionally and right. That's the challenge.

Dougster

 

[kwolfe]

Ii would say that with some plywood and a few nails, you could build an upside down pyramid funnel. A little wider than your bucket. Should be easy enough to put together, and CHEAP! Build it a little wider and you may actually be able to dump the trailer into it.

 

[hazmat]

Big plywood funnel?

If we were doing it, we would just shovel it in.

10 yds would be about three trips through. Not sure how many manholes that is, but I could probably start shoveling and be done by the time you get done fooling with that other stuff.

I'm with Alan - shovel & be done with it. By the time you drop off the tractor & then go pick up sand, you could have emptied trailer #1.

I'd think you could shovel 10 yards by hand in a day (especially if the trailer is right at the manhole.). Charge them $1,500 + material. It is bull work after all... Even at $1,000 you'd be making good money. Any chance of hiring a teenager to help shovel???

 

[Dougster]

Build it a little wider and you may actually be able to dump the trailer into it.

I should have probably pointed out that neither a dump truck nor my dump trailer could actually get close enough to these manholes to fill them in directly without a considerably long (and possibly vibrating) metal chute. In the case of the dump trailer, there simply would not be enough height available to make this concept work. Hence the probable reason that a "compact tractor and backhoe guy" was called in to do the job.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I'm with Alan - shovel & be done with it. By the time you drop off the tractor & then go pick up sand, you could have emptied trailer #1. I'd think you could shovel 10 yards by hand in a day (especially if the trailer is right at the manhole.). Charge them $1,500 + material. It is bull work after all... Even at $1,000 you'd be making good money. Any chance of hiring a teenager to help shovel???

Not legally anyway But don't think that I haven't considered learning enough Spanish and Portuguese to join the "illegal alien" bandwagon! And I am not kidding!!!

Steve! Have you shoveled 10 yards of sand lately??? That's 30,000 lbs of sand!!! You must be in WAY better shape than me!!! I didn't quit engineering and buy a tractor so I could start using a shovel!!!

Already gave them my price... and it is a lot lower than that! Still, they are balking at it... although I challenge them to come up with anyone cheaper who is licensed, insured and NOT using illegal alien labor.

Dougster

 

[hazmat]

Doug,

You keep finding the wrong kind of "specialty" jobs

I wouldn't shovel unless I could drive the dump trailer right up to the manhole.

 

[Dougster]

Doug, You keep finding the wrong kind of "specialty" jobs

I take whatever comes in the door and I bid practically everything... I am not proud and nothing is considered too dangerous anymore (except maybe falling into a septic tank)... then I figure out afterwards what it would actually take to do the crazy job!!!

Dougster

 

[Defective]

I would like to second (or is that third?) the plywood funnel idea. Just build the funnel to match your FEL to the hole then scoop from your trailer & dump it in the funnel. Remember to make the funnel such that you can grab it with the FEL to move between the holes.

If you expect to come across this general sort of take again, make the funnel out of steel.

 

[Dougster]

I would like to second (or is that third?) the plywood funnel idea. Just build the funnel to match your FEL to the hole then scoop from your trailer & dump it in the funnel. Remember to make the funnel such that you can grab it with the FEL to move between the holes. If you expect to come across this general sort of take again, make the funnel out of steel.

I'm guessing this is a pretty unusual job, but who knows? I suppose the plywood funnel idea is about as good as it's gonna get. Just have to make sure it is strong enough to handle the weight (probably build a square 2x4 frame for it) and that it won't jam up on me. I'll just have to feed slowly and make sure it doesn't.

Dougster

 

[AlanB]

I should have probably pointed out that neither a dump truck nor my dump trailer could actually get close enough to these manholes to fill them in directly without a considerably long (and possibly vibrating) metal chute. In the case of the dump trailer, there simply would not be enough height available to make this concept work. Hence the probable reason that a "compact tractor and backhoe guy" was called in to do the job.

Dougster

Kind of "Paul Harvey Project" stuff here,,,,

The rest of the story...........

are these things off road or something?

I cannot picture where your tractor is going that I could not put my dump.

So dump into the bucket of your tractor, and shovel into the hole. And yes, I have unloaded more then 10 yards of gravel (much less fun then sand by the way) with a shovel and wheelbarrow.

Not much fun, but sometimes the most practical way of doing it.

 

[Toiyabe]

Another vote for the funnel. Maybe make a lip of 2x4s around the exit that fits down in the hole if they are really uptight about spillage.

Try it out before you get to the job site. You don't want it to break or find out it doesn't fit a full bucket load when there's a lot of people watching.

The job will probably go faster if you have another person with a shovel to help the sand get through the funnel. Otherwise you may be on and off the tractor all day. That person should be able to see over the funnel and down the hole (maybe bring a flashlight?) so you know when you're getting near the top. You may need to hand shovel at that point to avoid spillage.

Make sure the sand is dry.

 

[Dougster]

are these things off road or something? I cannot picture where your tractor is going that I could not put my dump.

With enough effort and abutter permission, I could jam a dump truck or trailer back in there too. I'm just telling you what the client wants. This is what he wants.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

Another vote for the funnel. Maybe make a lip of 2x4s around the exit that fits down in the hole if they are really uptight about spillage. Try it out before you get to the job site. You don't want it to break or find out it doesn't fit a full bucket load when there's a lot of people watching. The job will probably go faster if you have another person with a shovel to help the sand get through the funnel. Otherwise you may be on and off the tractor all day. That person should be able to see over the funnel and down the hole (maybe bring a flashlight?) so you know when you're getting near the top. You may need to hand shovel at that point to avoid spillage. Make sure the sand is dry.

Amen to the dry sand!!!

I'm used to working alone and this job will be no different. I am a one man show and can't afford to share this small amount of revenue with a helper unless I want to go profitless. Jumping on and off the tractor doesn't bother me at all. And yes... ABSOLUTELY... I would test this funnel before moving it to the jobsite. That kind of "up front and personal" embarrassment I do not need.

Dougster

 

[Defective]

From the description of the task, I'd say you need 3 sheets of 3/4 ply, 4 2x2s, 1 2x6 and a big box of drywall screws.

Make a square frame from the 2x6 that just fits into the hole. Cut 2 sections (lengthwise) from one of the sheets of ply that are the same width as the frame. Center the frame on one long edge of a full sheet. Measure from the edge of the frame where it meets the edge of the sheet to the nearest corner on the other long edge. Cut your narrow sections to this length. Cut your 2x2s to this length also.

Stand your frame on edge with a little bit (maybe about half) hanging out past the edge of the sheet. Mark the corners that are still on the sheet. Lay a 2x2 on the sheet from each of these marks to the nearest corner on the long edge. Clamp them in place. Flip the sheet over. Pick up the frame we left in place & set it aside. Screw the 2x2s securely to the sheet. Repeat this for the other sheet. (Don't repeat the part where we forgot to move the frame out of the way...)

Now the tricky part...

Screw the frame in place on both sheets where it was sitting to mark the corners. Stand the assembly up so the frame is on the ground. Lay those sections we cut earlier in on the 2x2s. Apply lots of screws.

Use some of the leftover ply & 2x2 bits to brace the structure. (maybe stiffen the bottom outer corners...)

Yup...works for me...

(Sorry for the rather pedantic description, I've been arguing with computers all day...)

 

[Dougster]

From the description of the task, I'd say you need 3 sheets of 3/4 ply, 4 2x2s, 1 2x6 and a big box of drywall screws.

Make a square frame from the 2x6 that just fits into the hole. Cut 2 sections (lengthwise) from one of the sheets of ply that are the same width as the frame. Center the frame on one long edge of a full sheet. Measure from the edge of the frame where it meets the edge of the sheet to the nearest corner on the other long edge. Cut your narrow sections to this length. Cut your 2x2s to this length also.

Stand your frame on edge with a little bit (maybe about half) hanging out past the edge of the sheet. Mark the corners that are still on the sheet. Lay a 2x2 on the sheet from each of these marks to the nearest corner on the long edge. Clamp them in place. Flip the sheet over. Pick up the frame we left in place & set it aside. Screw the 2x2s securely to the sheet. Repeat this for the other sheet. (Don't repeat the part where we forgot to move the frame out of the way...)

Now the tricky part...

Screw the frame in place on both sheets where it was sitting to mark the corners. Stand the assembly up so the frame is on the ground. Lay those sections we cut earlier in on the 2x2s. Apply lots of screws.

Use some of the leftover ply & 2x2 bits to brace the structure. (maybe stiffen the bottom outer corners...)

Yup...works for me...

(Sorry for the rather pedantic description, I've been arguing with computers all day...)

D - Wouldn't it be easier and stronger just to use two 4 x 8 sheets of 3/4" plywood and form the actual funnel (and space out the sheets) using a 2x10s or 2x12s leaving the plywood sheets full-size for good lateral balance. I could then make a weighted brace or three of some design on the side opposite from my bucket approach.

I believe I'd use my framing nailer and just blast the heck out of it... using metal spraps all the way around at the key stress points. I don't trust drywall screws on something like this.

The trick, of course, would be to NOT overload and jam it. If I do that, I am screwed no matter what else I do.

Dougster

 

[TheKid]

I don't know if this would work in your situation, but I have seen concrete mixers deliver sand. would a mixer with a 20 ft chute reach the manholes?