YM 2210D front left knuckle

[tomture]

YM 2210D front left knuckle/ TOP CAP

Good Morning.

As you can see from another thread, I have been trying to revive an beat up YM 2210D since March of 2011. The tractor has lots of issues and my time is limited, so I only get to play every once in a while:

Issue,.. - Bad Front left Knuckle/ TOP CAP:

The 4WD does not work. I disassembled the knuckle and found bearings ceased, some of the casting worn and a general mess. The Front Axle Top Cap is bad, its really worn at the top because the top bearing was put in wrong. I cleaned it all up and ordered new parts from Hoye.

When I assembled the (newly made, not an old one, from Hoye) FRT AXLE TOP CAP and the gears, I could not get it to work without binding and scraping. I called Hoye and they send me a 2nd one and the same thing happened. I am not sure what is going on,..

For now I am going to assume that the new TOP CAP is made withing spec and that I am doing something wrong, I therefore:

1. Put the old gears with new bearings back into the old damage TOP CAP . Its turning smooth, (but it still has the unrelated issues that made me want to replace it in the first place).

2. I took the gears and bearings from the left side Top Cap and fitted them into the right side TOP CAP. Again, the gears fit and everything runs smooth.

Has anyone on this board had any experience replacing a front end Top Cap? Did you come across any issues similar to mine?? Can you please give me some advice? What am I missing??


Thank you very much.


Tom

 

[winston1]

I wonder if the amount of shims you are putting on the new housing may need to be adjusted? Reference numbers 45 & 46 in this drawing. Yanmar Tractor Parts: 4WD INTERNAL

 

[tomture]

Winston. Tried no shims, many shims and everything in between. No GO.

 

[284 International]

Does all that mean the problem could be on the axle shaft end? Are the gears on that part in good shape? Maybe the shaft is bent, or those bearings are worn, too?

If the top hat is in good shape, which with two new ones seems reasonable to assume, (Incidentally, what service from Hoye, to send another one on speculation the top hat may be mis-manufactured!!!)

Are you able to isolate the problem as being, for sure, in the knuckle at the tire side, not the axle side?

 

[winston1]

Do you think gears 36 and 52 are going together with no backlash? If that is the case that backlash is adjusted with shims 37 & 38. Just something to think about.

 

[tomture]

- Yes, the problem is with the Front AXLE TOP CAP.

- I have all new bearings from Hoye.

- I have it all taken apart.

I then put bearing #58 and gear #52 in place. Then snapring #28.

I then slide in bearing #43 and gear #36. until it engages gear #52. As I slide in gear #36, and use axle #35 to spin the gears, there is a certain point where the assembly starts running smooth and quiet. At that point I shim (2 shims) and then put in the snapring . That is how i did it on both my old Top Caps.

And again, I only took the right side Top Cap apart in order to get a point of reference, and it behaved as I expected it to.

On the two knuckles that I got from Hoye, as I slide in gear #36, the assembly engages, but it doesn't run smooth, as I slide it in further it starts to snag and grind, at one point I can no longer turn axle #35.

Yes, Hoye have been fantastic and very supportive during this process!! Please also understand, that my mechanical experience is limited,.. one could therefore expect the problem to be on my end. That I why I posted,.. to get more input from all on this great board.

Thank you.


Tom

 

[winston1]

Not sure I am fully understanding. Have you tried not putting any shims behind the bearing on the new top cap and see what happens?

 

[tomture]

Winston, Yes. On the new Top Cap I never get to the shimming part. I can't get it to turn smooth and to be ready for the shimming stage. (I see now why you were unclear, I used the wrong word in the post above. Its now edited and it should be clearer.)


284 International:

- I don't know,.. does it???,... and If it does, why does it then go together fine and run great on the old (good)Top Cap?

- Yes, I am certain that the problem is in the top cap, I have it all taken apart and its sitting in a wise on my workbench. Only the Top Cap, the gears and the bearings. I use the axle to be able to turn the assembly by hand, and check how it is coming together.

Tom

 

[winston1]

With the top cap attached to the bottom and not installed on the drive shaft. Take a scale and put it against the spindle and measure out to the snap ring groove on both new and old top caps. What is the difference?

 

[284 International]

Do you have part 30 from the external 4wd parts page off too? Can you spin the gears from the hub side, before putting the axle in? I'm thinking the trick will be to isolate when and where the problem occurs. If the gears and bearings on the spindle are correct, then the hub should freely spin the gears. If the trouble is fully seating gear 36, then maybe there are extra shims, perhaps at 40 or 41, that area causing the axle shaft to protrude too far.

 

[winston1]

284, I may be wrong, but looking at my ym220 manual shims 40 and 41 are used for setting backlash on the ring gear in the differential housing. They shouldn't have any effect on the drive shaft movement. The ring gear actually goes inside bearing #10 and the drive shaft floats through there. It is retained on the outer end in the top cap.

 

[284 International]

Looking at the diagrams more closely, and on a bigger screen, I believe you are right, Winston.

The axle shaft bearing on the wheel end appears to ride in the top hat, not the axle housing. The bearing seems to be what locates the gear when shimmed, via the two clips. The top hat bolts directly to the axle tube and is non-variable in its position relative to the axle tube.

It seems that the only choices for improper backlash in these gears would be bearing 43, and thus gear 36, going too far into the top hat and binding on gear 52, or bearing 58 being located such that gear 52 is too high. Is bearing 58 in the top hat or the knuckle?

Are you sure you have bearing 58 in the correct spot, and bearing 43 in its proper location? Maybe they are similar enough to fit, but not function properly.

The only other option is the tightness and binding is somewhere other than the top hat itself.

 

[winston1]

Yes, bearing 58 goes in the top hat. It goes on the spindle bevel gear similiar to the differential ring gear and bearing. Snap ring 28-42 is what holds the spindle shaft and gear from going down.

I think there is some small difference in the machining of the old and new tophats.

Have you tried leaving off snap ring 28-42 allowing bearing 58 to drop a few thousands. Then install axle, bearing, etc. and see if it will mate without binding.

 

[tomture]

Winston, Yes I have tried that and it works. However, I have to pull back bearing #58 4-5 mm. The bearing then covers the entire grove for the snap ring.

Besides, That change would then have an effect on how gear #53 goes together with gear #1. Those two gears would then be out of tolerance with respect to each other.I scrapped the Idea of leaving it.

At this point I am really out of Ideas on how to make it work,.. The fact that I can make it work using an old top cap without any problems is probably key.

Thanks very much for helping me double check my work. I am sending the caps back and will wait to see what Hoye says.

Tom

 

[284 International]

Since you have an old top hat that is known to work, and the new ones to compare, can you measure the relevant distances and compare them, to verify they are off the 4 to 5 mm required to make the gears mesh?

 

[winston1]

Yes I agree you can't make it work that way. Just trying to determine what is off to cause this problem. 284 has a good idea of comparison if you haven't already shipped the new ones back.