You cant call it back!

Bird · May 17, 2005

( a 1911-style .45 autoloader is my home sidearm of choice )

I like target shooting with an autoloader, but could never bring myself to trust one if my life might depend on it. I've just known of too many times when they went off accidentally, but then wouldn't work when needed.

I had a cousin on the police department who started 3 months before I did. One night, he and his partner got into a physical confrontation with 5 men at once in a gravel parking lot. My cousin was carrying that S&W .44 magnum at the time, but one of the suspects grabbed hold of the grips and was trying to pull it out of the holster with my cousin's hand on top of the suspect's hand holding the gun down in the holster, while he fought with this left hand. His partner was carrying one of those .45 autos and when things got bad enough, he pulled it and would have shot someone if he could have made it work, but it wouldn't. I was in the station when they came in; they had hung onto one of the suspects, the other 4 escaped. Both officers were filthy, uniforms torn, scrapes and bruises, etc. Of course, it was comical when it was over, but I'm sure it wasn't funny when they were fighting for their lives.

sneaky_pete · May 17, 2005

( I like target shooting with an autoloader, but could never bring myself to trust one if my life might depend on it. I've just known of too many times when they went off accidentally, but then wouldn't work when needed.)

I don't doubt that these things happen sometimes. I've owned both revolvers and autoloaders over the years, and just prefer the autos. The only time I've ever had an autoloader misfire was when using cheap eastern bloc ammo, which I haven't bought any more of in a long time. I spent the money to buy what I felt was a quality gun (Kimber), and I clean and maintain it meticulously. I don't know how many thousands of rounds I've put through it, but it has worked flawlessly with no misfires, jambs, or unintentional firings so far. I've never drawn a gun on an intruder, and hopefully never will, but if I ever had to I would trust the Kimber.

Varmintmist · May 17, 2005

( His partner was carrying one of those .45 autos and when things got bad enough, he pulled it and would have shot someone if he could have made it work, but it wouldn't. )

Just curious, what did he do wrong? The 1911 has been around for a few years, most of the bugs were pretty well worked out by the 1920's.

I agree with you that a decent 38 is hard to beat. They were the police sidearm of choice for almost as long as the 1911 was the sidearm of the US military.

The "magnum" craze of the 70's and the "Amazing wondergun 9mm" craze of the early 80's are kind of silly when you think about it but both were hollywood hype overrunning common sense.

thegreatrandini · May 17, 2005

Automatic pistols are mostly reliable but not as a good revolver...

Bird · May 17, 2005

( what did he do wrong? )

I don't know. It very well may have been his fault. We had 2 officers shot and killed in a gun battle quite a few years ago; both carrying automatics. One of them was sick and they were on their way back to the station for that one to go home sick when they spotted the suspects from a robbery that had just occurred. When the officers got out of their car, the hijackers jumped out of theirs and started shooting. So with the hijackers behind one car and the officers behind another, they exchanged shots until the officers had to reload. Witnesses said the officers reloaded but it appeared that their guns wouldn't shoot when the hijackers walked the around the car and shot both of them. In that case, apparently they put new clips in their guns, but didn't jack that first round into the chamber. It appeared that in the heat of a gun battle, they simply forgot how to properly use their weapons. So, in that case, we don't think the guns malfunctioned, and of course, one can't help but wonder how they each used a clip of ammo without hitting a suspect, or how they could forget to properly use the weapon. We can say inadequate training, insufficient practice, or whatever, but who knows what any of us would do when the target's shooting back.

When I took the FBI pistol course at Quantico, I told the instructor that I would never carry an automatic, but he told me how much better and more reliable the modern automatics are than some of the earlier ones. And with him standing there, it jammed on the second shot. And that was with new ammo; not reloads. I cleared the jam, and then the gun functioned properly for the rest of the course.

Birdhunter1 · May 18, 2005

My sidearm of choice would be my .45 Colt Vaquero which is on one side of the bed or my Springfield XD-9 which is on the other bed post. Both are loaded with Cor-Bon personal protection loads.

Varmintmist · May 18, 2005

( but who knows what any of us would do when the target's shooting back.)

I duck /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Dont know what I would do if the person was really trying to get me, but I do know that when the round snaps over your head, dirt is my friend /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Being older and better trained now, I still think I would duck, first. I quit hunting first day in that area after the second occurance.

Thing is, in the case you mentioned, the officer could just as eaisly tried to reload a revolver without ejecting the cases. Its training, what I get called "anti-cop" for when I say that firearms training IMHO is more important than popping 30 rounds once a year.

penokee · May 18, 2005

Currently 45 states have some form of ccw license. Here in Michigan it is now good for 5 years.
Surprise! Surprise! to the Anti-gunners - blood isn't flowing in the streets and crime isn't running rampant, in fact crime against people is down - the muggers never know what Grandma may be carrying in her purse. Everyone should be an NRA member - best lobby we have to protect our 2nd Amendment Rights.

penokee /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Life Member - VFW
Life Member - NRA
Member - American Legion

Slamfire · May 19, 2005

I doubt there is a caliber or round that will stop every man, every time. The FBI learned the hard way just what a fighting man can accomplish in the last 10 seconds of his life. For home defense my wife and I both have fully loaded 20 gauge shotguns. 12s might be more effective, but we are gettin' a bit old and need the lighter weight. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bczoom · May 19, 2005

( I doubt there is a caliber or round that will stop every man, every time. )

I believe there are, but not that I'd want to use in a house. Quantity is important for self defense.