You knew it couldn't last

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   / You knew it couldn't last #51  
Well I just have a little TC29D, have had many implements on the back with some serious side hills and not broke mine yet.

murph

ps: when the pictures do come would someone email me and let me know they are here. I would like to see the damage also.
 
   / You knew it couldn't last #52  
Look what I've been missing....:eek: I just read the entire thread, start to finish. With such a short time to digest all the information, accusations, and metalurgical examinations, to no one's suprise, I have my opinion(s) as to what the problem is.

Gonna upset someone I suspect.

First off. The company I work for has several cranes, a half dozen back hoes, 2 excavators, several skid steers, ect... The standard fare for a general contractor. Some of the equipment is relatively new. (yet it still has relatively the same number of breakages as some older equipment) We have a maint. and repair crew consisting of 6 people, 2 pick-up trucks and a Kenworth repair/fuel/service rig equipped with welder, generator, torches, hydraulic press, vice, anvil, a forge, loads of tools, ect. Also, they have a 4 bay shop, parts storage, and office that's just over 12,000sq. ft. Point being? Use equipment, no matter how it's built, no matter how carefull some people are, and THINGS BREAK from time to time. You just have expect a certain amount of failures and make accomodations for such. It isn't always "poor design". It isn't always "poor quality material". SOMETIMES though, it IS poor operation that causes the damage.

I've owned and operated my own equipment for quite a long time. It's not always easy to be objective about one's own actions. So, let's leave that out of the picture for now.

We have (at this time) 11 full-time equipment operators. 6 have been with us for a prolonged period of time. By watching those 6, and all the other "transient labor" that floats in and out of here, I've noticed that some of these guys tend to run whatever they climb on with little downtime, few repairs needed, and even lower required "routine maint." on their equipment. Plain and simple, they're just easier on equipment. A few of our guys, ESPECIALLY the younger ones, or the "work here for a while then move on to another employer for a while" types seem to keep our repair guys in overtime. To the casual observer, they usually appear to be competent operators. They get approx. the same volume of work done in the same period of time as some of the "better operators". But when we track repair cost per hour on specific equipment and then compare that to who's operating that equipment, the parallels begin to emerge.

It's always the same cast of characters who break everything.

Long story short, some people are just harder on their (or someone elses) equipment than others. Blaming it on the equipment rather than looking at the facts only serves to emphasize the fact that others use the VERY SAME EQUIPMENT with little or no troubles.

Now, on the amature metalurgy class we're having; Looks to me as if that's a stamped steel/forged part we're talking about. Cast would be more expensive to produce, less likely to endure typical use, and just not the way things are commonly done.

Parts break. That's why all the manufacturers have billion dollar investments in replacement parts networks, dealers have mega-buck investments in parts inventories, and why many end users stock their own inventory of high failure rate parts. It's called THE HIGH PRICE OF DOING BUSINESS.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Brian. I admire his dedication and determination to make a business go. But let's face it, how often do you get to cry wolf a'fore no one comes running to your aid? Sounds oddly enough like there's a trend here. He's using equipment (models and brands) that have a stellar reputation, yet his "luck" with them is horrendous. (New Holland and Rhino BOTH have taken a bashing)

Brian, maybe you need to take a long carefull look at how you're using this equipment. Also, as is the case with the mowers you have, you can't use medium duty equipment in sustained commercial use without a high part failure rate. That's why they make extra heavy duty mowers.

Not to rub salt into the wound, but let's compare; Over the summer, my mowing business and its employees have logged just shy of 2800 hours spread across 4 tractors. (one with almost half the hours) I have a repair log book on all my equipment. With EVERY repair that was needed, there was a cause and an effect. Not so much as hunting for someone to blame as it is looking for ways to AVOID simular problems in the future, we made certain to document causes. If an operator was to drag in a piece of equipment that was broken in some fashion, and they weren't aware of HOW it happened, I'd be very concerned. Obviously they aren't paying nearly enough attention to what's going on around them, and just "making laps". That would be a GIANT RED FLAG with me. (And NOT cause to point blame at the manufacturer)
 
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   / You knew it couldn't last #53  
>>I have a repair log book on all my equipment. With EVERY repair that was
>>needed, there was a cause and an effect. Not so much as hunting for
>>someone to blame as it is looking for ways to AVOID simular problems in
>> the future, we made certain to document causes.
Thats interesting...as part of the repair log you also track the reason a failure occurred? How exactly to you determine that? I hadnt thought of logging this sort of info. What does you log look like then?
 
   / You knew it couldn't last #54  
jimg said:
>>I have a repair log book on all my equipment. With EVERY repair that was
>>needed, there was a cause and an effect. Not so much as hunting for
>>someone to blame as it is looking for ways to AVOID simular problems in
>> the future, we made certain to document causes.
Thats interesting...as part of the repair log you also track the reason a failure occurred? How exactly to you determine that? I hadnt thought of logging this sort of info. What does you log look like then?

The log book is simply a spiral bound notebook. I keep an informal history of each repair, the cost involved in fixing such, location of job where it broke, and cause/effect. On a few occasions I have to think "most likely" reason why something broke. But most times it's fairly evident, ESPECIALLY if the operator is paying attention when the failure occurs. I don't torture my victims to get answers ;) They always offer up any information as to their involvement. My son has learned (after having a son of his own) that there's no way to keep "dad" from figuring out what happened. My son in law doesn't seem to care if I hold him responsible or not, and my employees are long time friends who just simply shoot straight from the hip. No hidden agendas. What we've found out is slightly less than 1/4 of the breakdowns are avoidable operator errors, 1/4 are related to the conditions in which we work, and 1/2 are parts failures that were inevitable.

The reason why I started my logging of this info? Tax time. The fear of audits. I want documented information to go with all the invoices when the IRS comes knocking. From that sprang the idea of figuring out how to prevent repeat occurances.

The notebook has somehow taken on the same appearance as some of my high school work from long ago. A lot of doodling, some cryptic writings, and a slight bit of usefull information.
 
   / You knew it couldn't last #55  
Well, I really like that idea of also recording reasons and keeping a detailed log (where/when/etc). It really hadnt occurred to me that info would be useful in those ways. I really appreciate it that you mentioned it!!! Thanx a bunch!

>>My son has learned (after having a son of his own) that there's no way to
>>keep "dad" from figuring out what happened
This made me laugh b/c it SO true. My sons are still in the clueless zone on this one esp my youngest. When they have sons itll all be crystal clear. :D :D :D
 
   / You knew it couldn't last
  • Thread Starter
#56  
I had a much longer post and I deleted it in lieu of this

Honesty

I noticed it doesn't mean much here and that's too bad. In spite of all my faults the one thing I have always done and will always do is tell the truth. I'm sorry you don't like the truth, but it is, nonetheless the truth.

So, please go on believing that everything is perfect and no NH's have any issues at all (you know, despite the fact that NH bought my first TC45 back with pretty much zero pushback) and are all assembled and designed perfectly and any issues at all are all operator induced.

Too bad.

I would hope to find that people would value all sides of the story and decide for themselves. But apparantly not and somehow my experiences are not valid. So, don't worry I won't take up any more of your precious time telling both the good points and the bad from my experiences, I'll just join the rest of the cheerleading crowd.
 
   / You knew it couldn't last #57  
Hi Brian
Im *totally* disappointed! I took you for a fighter. :) Itll be dull around here w/o your postings! :) As w/ any internet site you have all sorts of personalities. From 'afar' its all too easy to launch rocks w/o having a good grasp of the situation. I think youre wimping out and you really need to find your thick skin and fire suit. In between the heckling theres actually a fair amt of useful infos in this sort of posting. :) Chin up!!! Go get the camera and put some pics up.
 
   / You knew it couldn't last #58  
And the promised pictures?
 
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   / You knew it couldn't last #59  
I concur with Bob Young. Tension and compression forces are the factors here. These things are designed primarily for tension force. Compression happens when backing up or when turning and hitting an obstacle (seen or hidden). When turning and hitting something, one stabilizer is in tension and the other is in compression. They are designed to be the weak link in the system. Does NH owe you a new one if one breaks? If it were a common problem I'd think so and a new design may be in order but only slightly sturdier. They are about the same from brand to brand and maybe you got a bad one and maybe it broke from operator abuse. Its the way that you just flat out demand a new one for free from the dealer which sets the tone for this thread and gets the NH crowd upset with you. I know you feel you're telling the truth and I enjoy reading your posts.

The thing is, stuff breaks. Especially under extreme loads. And just maybe sometimes, it is the operator's fault. I usually know the difference and to keep the relationship with my dealer smooth, I usually talk about the things that I've broken and if it was my fault, I ante up and pay for my mistakes. It sounds like your relationship with your dealer is a bit on the negative side right now.
 
   / You knew it couldn't last #60  
"Obviously made at the Chinese lead toy factory. Cheap crappy pot metal, huge flaws at the break point."

"It's cheap piece of crappy metal. It's not even steel, it's pot metal of course it's going to break. "

"I will take a picture tomorrow of the break after I take it apart. Looks like a cheap metal toy that's broken in half."

"They are definately cast. Wife let the batteries run down in the camera, i'll try tomorrow, only one of the arms came in today."

that last one was posted on 10/15/07
They are not pot metal and not cast. They are made of steel.

Mike
 
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